TOPIC:

I have a new MiniDSP SHD and for the most part, it's working well.  However, I've noticed that when I play hi-res files from Qobuz (it's the only source of HR files I have) I will hear clicks occasionally and randomly when playing music.  They are not super loud and kind of sound like the clicks you might get when listening to a record.  If I change the Qobuz quality setting to 44.1/16 bit there is no clicking.  

• I can hear the clicking when I stream Qobuz using either Roon and Volumio through the SHD with HR files.
• I do NOT hear the clicking when I stream using either Roon or Volumio after setting Qobuz to CD quality.
• I do NOT hear the clicking when I stream the same Qobuz HR tracks through Roon on my PC
• I've also tried to stream the same Qobuz track via SONOS but I think it's streaming the CD quality track, but again no clicking (not through the SHD).  

Is this something that is known and, if so, if there a user-fix?  Or do I need to open a ticket?  At this point, I don't think it's a Roon, Volumio, or Qobuz issue as it only happens when streaming through the SHD and only when I stream HR files, and only occasionally!

My SHD setup is outputs 1 and 2 XLR to my power amps to my speakers.  Outputs 3 and 4 RCA to two separate subs.  I use hi and low pass filters in the appropriate crossovers and lower the gain a bit for my subs.  Direc on or off doesn't seem to matter.

It is certainly the best to open a minidsp support ticket. I am using a SHD Studio, but for streaming I have a lumin U1 mini streamer. So I do not know if the clicking happens here, too. How often does a click occur? Is it simple to reproduce it? If so, I could try to stream a hires track with volumio. 

This isn't an issue I've personally experienced when streaming high-res Qobuz tracks via my SHD. Are you using a wired or WiFi connection to your SHD? It it's the latter it might be informative to see if the issue goes away if you try the former.

Thank you for the response.  I have opened a ticket so we'll see what they say.  FYI, I use ethernet to connect and it doesn't seem to happen on all hi-res files.  So far, I hear the popping on The Queen's Gambit soundtrack (24/48) and on Live in Europe by Melody Gardot (24/48).  However, I listened to Nightfall by Till Bronner (24/96) and didn't notice any clicking or popping.  Again, with the Melody Gardot (as with the Queen's Gambit soundtrack) if I change the Qobuz streaming quaity to 16/44.1, I don't hear the clicking or popping.  The pops are not super loud and it really does sound like the occasional pop you hear on an album.  For the Queen's Gambit, I have been using Beth's Story as my main test track.

Right now, I just have Qobuz set to CD quality to avoid the issue but one of the reasons I got the SHD was to listen to hi-res files.  The previous streamer I had made a loud pop between songs if the sample rate changed.  I also have a SONOS port that I use as a streamer elsewhere and I never heard pops through that in the same system but it's hard to determine if something is hi-res or not with SONOS.  

FYI, most of my streaming is through Roon and I've tried setting the SHD to both fixed volume or device volume but neither seems to help.  My Core is the NUC11TNHi7 with 8GB of RAM and it's the exact hardware that Roon links to for large libraries so I think it's over-powered for what I'm using it for (almost no DSP except volume control which is really just remote controlling the SHD volume control).

I just noticed that both albums that pop have sample rates of 48kHz and the one I didn't notice the popping on had a sample rate of 96kHz.  Let me try some other albums with sample rates other than 48kHz and see if the problem persists?

Maybe it is an synchronization issue between the SHD and your DAC? Similar like when playing via Apple Air Play with some clients. Can you switch between an AES and SPDIF connection?

I'm using the DAC in the SHD.  Streaming from the Roon Core or Qobuz over ethernet into the SHD and from there I use XLR cables into my amp and then it goes to the speakers (Magnepan MMGs).  I also have output 3 and 4 of the SHD connected via RCA to two subs and I'm using the gain and crossover DSP functions in the SHD as well as Dirac.

Hi
after reading over your question and responses I have to say if you're using a NUC as your core you might be better off with something like a Raspberry Pi 4 running Roopiee and let the SHD perform the Digital  conversion and DSP.  I had the exact same issue with my shd and often even with Tidal tracks.. but more predominantly on Qobuz.  And I understand where you're coming from , it was pretty damn annoying, to be honest. So when I switched to a Raspberry Pi 4,  as the streaming device that would relay the information to my SHD DAC it opened up a lot of performance.    Pi4 straight usb out into the dac.  No Hat needed.  It  works perfectly fine and as a bonus, if you build it yourself you get a really nice 8 inch screen that displays your track info 

Ebay USA item 225508853166 as an example although you can find parts for it on Amazon and just put it all together yourself for less money than that. Sound quality wise I have noticed no difference .  Some people that have heard it actually say it sounds better with the Raspberry Pi 4 than it does with the built-in streamer from the miniDSP .  Personally I can't hear any difference ... which is not necessarily A Bad Thing. In reality I shouldn't hear a difference if both things are working correctly !!  As far aasehat I  can measure with my(Audio Precision) APx525.. at 24/96  with the mini DSP SHD serving DAC function for both scenarios, (therefore measuring the output of the MiniDSP  SHD and only modifying the streaming apparatus)  they measure the same. Some guys say  they can hear a difference and some  can't ...  whether somebody has golden ears  I certainly can't account for that; everybody perceives different things when listening for audio fidelity.   So it's hard to account for bias, without proper test conditions and I have never really been a fan of the " double blind"  test for audio comparison.  I don't trust our aural memory.  But strictly speaking. From an engineering perspective, (as an EE)  it certainly measures the same and it certainly functions   better than the mini DSP due to the large touchscreen display.   Point being Raspberry Pi with a nice sized display screen might solve the issue and it's a  very affordable fix. 

@amirsag so basically you are suggesting use the PI as a Roon End Point and not the built-in Volumio?  But still use the DAC in the SHD?  I use the USB port right now as my 12-volt trigger so if I were to look into RoPieee, I'd probably need a HAT that supports S/PDIF or TOSLINK (or, I guess, a USB hub).  Does that sound right to you?  Not a HAT with a DAC, just a HAT for S/PDIF.

Interesting that Volumio could be the culprit here.  I was thinking it was the DAC or something in the timing.  Thank you for replying!

Ok, sorry, my brain did a wrong auto completion to „SHD Studio“ when reading „SHD“.

So it probably will be volumio if the pops are not part of the mastering. Maybe you can try to connect a PC via USB to the SHD and play the hires files via the PC (the qobuz app?).

I tried to listen to the first 2 tracks of the queen‘s soundtrack, but am not sure if I hear some very silent pops or if there are some scratching instrument or noises in the recording. But if there is something it is hard on the edge to what I can hear with my not so young ears. I can try to ask my son to do a test.

I have tested the first 2 tracks with my son (streamed via volumio) and he also is not quite sure if there are some very slight scratches in the first track. It probably is a kind of instrument, because it seems to match the rhythm. So for me it does sound ok.

Do you hear the pops always at the same track positions? Are the pops very clear to hear or is it quite hard to catch them?

Do the pops occur if the tracks are played directly using the Qobuz option in Volumio rather than getting Roon involved at any point? My own comment above referred to this scenario for what it's worth.

@gbr, thank you for listening to those tracks!  There is soft percussion on that Queen's Gambit track that I can hear and that is not the source of the popping.  You have good speakers if you can hear it as it's really low in the mix!   The popping does not seem to appear at the same place/time when I hear it.  I get that sometimes you can hear noise that is inherently in the track itself like noise in the room, or vocal/sibilance popping (which I can hear sometimes on live recordings).  I am pretty sure that the pops I'm hearing are not that.  

Do you (or anyone) know what "Audio Buffer Size" setting in Volumio "Roon Ready Playback Options" does?  I have Googled for those terms and not much comes up, nor does it appear to be well described in the SHD manual.  I changed that setting (I think it's on .05 by default) to .100 and it seems to have made a difference.  But since the popping is random, it's hard to tell if it truly helped.

 

Ultrasonic wrote:

Do the pops occur if the tracks are played directly using the Qobuz option in Volumio rather than getting Roon involved at any point? My own comment above referred to this scenario for what it's worth.


 

The pops also occur when I listen to the same tracks in Volumio so it's not just Roon.  They do not occur when I listen to the same track via Roon on my PC or using SONOS as a Roon end point or just using Sonos.  However, with Sonos, it's hard to know if it's streaming the hi-res version or the cd version so I can't trust that in my tests.  But, again, when I play the track on my PC as a Roon end point, there are no pops.

CharlieC wrote:

Thank you for the response.  I have opened a ticket so we'll see what they say.  FYI, I use ethernet to connect and it doesn't seem to happen on all hi-res files.  So far, I hear the popping on The Queen's Gambit soundtrack (24/48) and on Live in Europe by Melody Gardot (24/48).  However, I listened to Nightfall by Till Bronner (24/96) and didn't notice any clicking or popping.  Again, with the Melody Gardot (as with the Queen's Gambit soundtrack) if I change the Qobuz streaming quaity to 16/44.1, I don't hear the clicking or popping.  The pops are not super loud and it really does sound like the occasional pop you hear on an album.  For the Queen's Gambit, I have been using Beth's Story as my main test track.

Is this the Queen's Gambit album you were trying?



I don't get any pops on track 2 (Beth's Story) of this, playing the 48 kHz/24 bit. Any particular tracks on the Melody Gardot album that are problematic? I've listened to the first track without issue. Just sharing in case this points to a possible cause that is more specific to your setup somehow.

Ultrasonic wrote:

Is this the Queen's Gambit album you were trying?

I don't get any pops on track 2 (Beth's Story) of this, playing the 48 kHz/24 bit. Any particular tracks on the Melody Gardot album that are problematic? I've listened to the first track without issue. Just sharing in case this points to a possible cause that is more specific to your setup somehow.

Yes, that is the one of the albums I hear the pops on as well as the 1st track of the Melody Gardot album.  Good to know you don't hear them.  For me, if I change Qobuz to CD quality I don't hear the clicks either.  I also changed a setting in Volumio under Roon Ready Settings called "Audio Buffer Size" and that seemed to help.  Do you happen to know what that setting actually does?  Thank you, so much, for your help!