TOPIC:

Hi, I’m new here and know little about the various products.  I’m considering the SHD or one of its brothers for my systems.  

Here are my needs:

1. Room correction including dual sub management
2. Roon integration
3. feeding an MSB - The Discrete DAC for L and R main speakers
4. feeding 2 subs with the analogue outputs 

My concerns:

1. I understand that the analogue and digital outputs are live at the same time but am I likely to run into latency issues using the internal DAC for the subs and an external DAC for the main speakers?
2. Is the version of Dirac full featured with bass management 
3. If there are issues mixing analogue and digital out should I just buy the digital out only version (SHD Studio) and get an additional DAC for the subs?

Other factors that may be relevant:

1. I only use Roon as a source, although I may feed the TV in that room for the occasional movie watch in there (I have a home theatre room elsewhere)
2. My main DAC will connect directly to my power amp.
3. I haven’t yet bought the subs so if there’s a specific solution with a certain sub type I’m flexible.
4. Im in a large room 8900sqft
5. I already have a UMIK-2 on the way (was intending to use with REW to assess my rooms)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hi!

1. Combining the analogue and digital outputs of the SHD is no problem because you can adjust the timing of both.

2. There is no Dirac Live Bass Control for miniDSP devices, just Dirac Live Full Bandwidth as I know.

3. See answer 1.

Is Dirac Live Bass Control an add-on to the limited bandwidth included with some AVRs to make it full bandwidth or is there more to it than just the full bandwidth version?

Dirac Live Bass Control is developed especially for multiple subwoofers as a plus over the Full Bandwidth correction.
www.dirac.com/live/bass-control/

With a miniDSP, you still can use Dirac for subs, just not independently from the main speakers. The independency is what the Bass Control gives, if I understand correctly.

rortmanns wrote:

Is Dirac Live Bass Control an add-on to the limited bandwidth included with some AVRs to make it full bandwidth or is there more to it than just the full bandwidth version?

DLBC is for multi-channel systems and the important additional functionality is automatic time delay adjustment for subwoofer integration. Dirac Live on miniDSPs does not do this. The hardware has the functionality for the user to set time delays to achieve this but they need to do the work themselves to determine what optimal time delays are (usually using manual measurements made using Room EQ Wizard).

Or use MSO to work out all the best time delays. 

asx77 wrote:

Or use MSO to work out all the best time delays. 

That still requires measurements in REW first though I believe? 

I was intending to buy the SHD and then I thought the Flex would be better value for me, I’d just need an additional DAC and all the streaming stuff seems riddled with issues anyway, I already have a Roon endpoint.  Then I found out that the Studio is limited to 48KHz sampling for DIRAC where the SHD is 96KHz, why the heck would they do that.  I’m unsure how important that is to the final quality out of the SHD?

I have a UMIK on the way to have a play with REW anyway.  It’s a pity that DLBC is not available in SHD, the only purpose of the entire unit is to integrate subs and phase and time are critical in doing that well.  I have a home theatre with dual subs and I use Anthem ARC there, it does up to 4 subs with time, phase and equalisation, adding bass phase and timing made a huge difference in my room, I image it’s the same in the stereo I’m building.  I’ll try MSO.  I’m also looking at buying SBS SB16 subs for my room, they have phase control and equalisation built so I may be able to do a lot in the subs control up front using REW.  

Im hoping Minidsp do something for Black Friday.

rortmanns wrote:

Then I found out that the Studio is limited to 48KHz sampling for DIRAC where the SHD is 96KHz, why the heck would they do that. 

Where have you seen that? I'm virtually certain that's incorrect. Possibly you're confusing the SHD Studio with one of the Flex models or the DDRC-24? These do have the lower Dirac Live sample rate you mention.

Sorry, correction, I’m getting my models confused.  I was looking at the Flex as an alternative, not the SHD Studio.  I corrected the post.

rortmanns wrote:

I’m also looking at buying SBS SB16 subs for my room, they have phase control and equalisation built so I may be able to do a lot in the subs control up front using REW. 

The additional processing on the subs would basically offer you nothing if you're going to be using an SHD. I'd consider buying alternative capable subs without this, so your money is going on features you want instead.

Of particular note, time delays on the sub generally aren't really what you want in a stereo system since generally the main speaker will be closer than the subwoofers. If this is the case then it's the signal sent to the main speakers that needs to be delayed for optimal time-alignment.

rortmanns wrote:

Sorry, correction, I’m getting my models confused.  I was looking at the Flex as an alternative, not the SHD Studio.  I corrected the post.

Well in that case the answer to 'why' is that it's a cheaper product, which may reasonably not have the DSP power to run at 96 kHz.miniDSP also probably didn't want to totally devalue their flagship product.

I bought the SHD.  It may even get here one day if FedEx deign to deliver it to me.  It’s been sitting with them here for over a week now.

Anyway, I intend to run it as follows:  I’ll use the SHD as a Roon endpoint, I’ll use active crossover with stereo subs.  The SHD will do the DAC for the subs and a digital output for the mains will drive my SMB DAC and into the power amp.  Everything runs balanced.  I’ll employ Dirac using the SHD and I’ll use REW to tune the subs.  

My subs as they currently sit are actually closer to me than the mains, I have them sitting a 1/4 way along the length of the room on each side. Since I don’t have a crossover here I have tried finding the best place for them but I’m hoping that’s a good spot ( they sit about where the surrounds would be in a home theatre system but a bit toward the front wall from the sitting position.  I guess they might end up sitting in the front corners but that’s not where any of my other subs have ever ended up.  I usually PLC350 my sub by putting one in my listening position and then moving a Mike to measure the response around the room looking for the flattest response with minimal standing waves at the listening position.

Im integrating TAD ME1 mains with dual PerListen D15s subs.  

I’d gladly receive any advice on my approach.  I’m still waiting on the minidsp, the power amp (have an interim unit) and cable bits to make up my sub cables (that’s sitting at the post office).

Im curious on the timing issues I might have between the internal subs DAC and the external mains DAC.

rortmanns wrote:

Im curious on the timing issues I might have between the internal subs DAC and the external mains DAC.

To properly integrate the subs you will want to make measurements to set the time delays. If you do this any different latencies between DACs will be included in this process as so pose no problem at all.

Edit: when I wrote the above I hadn't realised that the MSB DAC in question may have an unusually HUGE latency of around 500 ms. This would be an issue as it would be too large to be compensated for. Most 'normal' DACs shouldn't be an issue but clearly I need to watch out more of outliers!