TOPIC:

Hi Guys,
I'd like to use the SHD for its streaming DAC and Dirac capabilities as a front end to my PrimaLuna preamp.
I understand that the SHD has it's  own volume control so i'd like to know if I can configure it to be at fixed volume as well as retaining the Dirac functionality.
Thanks

Hi,

you can use the SHD as DAC and to apply Dirac and you can set the volume manually to 0dB (-10dB). But you can not fix the volume. So if you touch the volume control the volume will change as it is with any other preamp. If you restart the SHD the volume will keep its last setting. 

I've never really tested the streaming capabilities of the SHD. I don't like Volumio and use Squeezeserver hardware instead. 

So yes, you can use the SHD as you wish to. I use it the same way. 

On the other hand: If there is no special function you need, then it doesn't make much sense to use the SHD before a (tube) preamp. Using the SHD with Dirac instead of your PrimaLuna preamp might change the sound of your system in a way that you perhaps won't like. But give it a try!
Nocko

Dirac will not affect the "valve sound". 

The question as raised above though is do upu really need the SHD if you're not using the volume control. Your alternative would be a streamer and the DDRC-24. Note that keeping your pre-amp means you can't use the minidsp product to fully integrate a sub.

This is a great point. I didnt know you could get a unit that is just a DAC with Dirac. The SHD is clearly overkill for my use case.
Thanks!!

one more thought - i have a Rel T.7i and i have it hooked up using the high level connection (which comes off the amp posts)
any thoughts/experience on if Dirac would work to adjust bass if the sub signal is being fed from the AMP itself?
I imagine it alters the frequency response which is then passed on to the preamp correct?
Thanks

sdbansal wrote:

one more thought - i have a Rel T.7i and i have it hooked up using the high level connection (which comes off the amp posts)
any thoughts/experience on if Dirac would work to adjust bass if the sub signal is being fed from the AMP itself?
I imagine it alters the frequency response which is then passed on to the preamp correct?
 

Dirac Live works by measuring the output of the system as a whole and making adjustments to this. If your pre-amp is making a significant change to the frequency response it is frankly rubbish/broken but any change it does make will be included in the measurements anyway. So the practical answer is yes, you can use Dirac Live to improve the bass performance of your system.

What you lose out on with your approach is that you can't use the miniDSP to apply a high-pass filter to your main speakers to limit the range they have to handle and to let your sub take over more. You also can't use the miniDSP to control the time delays between your main speakers and sub.

I would add that adding a high-pass filter to the mains speakers is debatable, there are opinions in favor and against it, but the time alignment could be important although I don’t know how audible it is -if you can distinguish in a blind test-

@Chad2057 - yes I've often wondered if it's worth not rolling off the mains. The positive I'm guessing is you've got the bass now emanating from an additional two places to help even out the distribution. But on the negative: the bass going to them is technically stereo. If you're using subs you've now got to get multiple timings correct so need MSO's help. Bass is where the power amp works it's hardest so why not use the dedicated amps in the sub(s) and free the power amps of that burden. Are we pushing the speakers closer to their frequency limits and causing issues in the mid/bass etc. by having them do the low stuff?.. Ultimately though I think if your amps and speakers are comfortable down to the low frequencies then it's certainly worth a shot. 

@sdbansal, I started with a ddrc24 before changing to an SHD. I was using the ddrc24 with an integrated and like you using the high level input. What I did was dial the gain up pretty high on the subs before running dirac. That way, dirac cut the subs to something sensible and at the same time effectively put a shelf on the mains where they crossed over with the subs. That seemed to work but as @ultrasonic said it doesn't do anything for the timings.
 

chad2057 wrote:

I would add that adding a high-pass filter to the mains speakers is debatable, there are opinions in favor and against it, but the time alignment could be important although I don’t know how audible it is -if you can distinguish in a blind test-

The point of my post above was principally to explain functionality, but if you want to get into comparing potential benefits then there are easily situations where both are demonstrable in double-blind tests. Let me elaborate...

Let's start with high-pass filtering main speakers. There are two different sources of benefits here, and the significance of each will depend on the specific equipment and room:

1. A subwoofer can usually be positioned somewhere that gives a better bass response than is possible for main speakers, given the constraints on their positioning for forming a stereo image. High-passing the main speakers to let the subwoofer cover a larger frequency range extends the frequency range over which this benefit can be realised.
2. High pass filtering the main speakers can decrease both harmonic and intermodulation distortion.

Turning to the timing question it depends quite what is meant. Getting the contributions from the sub and main speakers in phase at the crossover frequency is important to avoid a significant dip in the frequency response, and the time delay feature on miniDSPs gives a great way to get this right. How well the same can be achieved using controls on a sub itself will vary with the model. A different aspect which is actually very much debatable, is whether getting the arrival times to match is significant or not. The contributions of sub and main speakers can be perfectly in phase, but with say the sub signal arriving one acoustic period later (at the crossover frequency). With miniDSPs used as pre-amps you can delay the signal to the main speakers to prevent this. I've seen people argue that this makes an inaudible difference though, and I'll be honest I've never tried to specifically test this for myself. Although I will say that I've used a movie setup where there was a 1 period difference like this without it obviously sounding 'wrong'.

Hi @Ultrasonic, when I used MSO after adding a second sub, it was interesting that MSO put a major delay on one of the subs, way beyond what was necessary to account for distance variations and processing delys but I guess it did it to get the best integration overall.

asx77 wrote:

Hi @Ultrasonic, when I used MSO after adding a second sub, it was interesting that MSO put a major delay on one of the subs, way beyond what was necessary to account for distance variations and processing delys but I guess it did it to get the best integration overall.

Yes, I believe MSO will adjust delays to target a more even frequency response. Earl Geddes was a pioneer of the multi-subwoofer approach and I believe he argues that arrival time differences really have to be quite large before they become audible.

@asx77 Can i ask why you upgraded to SHD? Are you using another pre-amp in your chain?

I should perhaps add that in my personal experience, the benefits of being able to high-pass main speakers has been huge. I've done so using two different subwoofers and three different pairs of main speakers (one set of floorstanding speakers and two sets of standmounts). Limiting what a subwoofer does in my room/system to just the bottom octave would be a colossal waste.

In terms of DDRC-24 vs SHD, note that the latter has a better performing DAC. The differences aren't purely functional.

sdbansal wrote:

@asx77 Can i ask why you upgraded to SHD? Are you using another pre-amp in your chain?

 

Hi,
I went for the DDRC-24 first because (not being able to audition in advance) I didn't want to take an expensive plunge with the SHD. I thought if I was happy I could relegated the DDRC-24 to our family area and go for and SHD.

I first started using it with fixed volume and using the sub's HL input off the speaker terminals. But I then converted one of my amp's inputs to a theatre bypass and tried the ddrc24 as a preamp with fully integrated sub. There was an improvement but the thing that nagged was the lack of display for volume control. But I lived with it and got used to it.

But then I upgraded my integrated amp to a pair of valve monoblock power amps it didn't seem to make sense to use my integrated's pre-amp section given it was solid state (and shortly after that changed my speakers). I decided they both deserved a better source and tbh I was missing having a display so eventually got the SHD and relegated the DDRC-24. 

I then added a second sub and used MSO followed by Dirac.