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SHD vs Squeezebox app volume problem 6 months 2 weeks ago #54821

  • asx77
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Hello guys,
I’m having volume control problems with my SHD.

I have the latest firmware, volumio software and have installed the squeezelite plugin.

I have a few android tablets and the squeezebox duet remote used around the house with other squeezeboxes but you have to select which squeezebox/SHD to control so the others I’m not using shouldn’t interfere here.

If I change volume on the Squeezebox App (changes in 1% steps) the changes on the SHD are anywhere between 5db and 1db.

With the app volume being 0-100% and steps being in 1%, there isn’t much correlation in exact volume settings. E.g. something like 79% on the App would need to equal -26.78 on the SHD which isn’t a position that exists.

Even if I use a taught remote or the rotary control to set the volume on the SHD to one of its 0.5db positions, as soon as I skip on the app or the playlist moves on to the next track, the SHD volume changes seemingly randomly up or down to a setting that most equals the closest whole value on the App. (At least I think that’s what’s happening).

I’ve also programmed the SHD to respond to a small credit card sized remote and it does change perfectly in 0.5db steps but again, any change of song on the app changes the SHD’s volume.

Any suggestions of what I could try to get the volumes to tie up would be greatly appreciated.

Or if I can’t set the app to -127.5-0 range, is there a way to stop the SHD from telling the App what volume it’s set too?

Of disable volume control on the app without the default value being 0db which would be errr... too loud!

I’ve asked support but this is probably something to do with volumio and or the plugin so not sure they’ll be able to help.

Thank you
Alex

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SHD vs Squeezebox app volume problem 6 months 2 weeks ago #54822

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I have seen similar strange volume behaviour when using upnp of sb to control volumio. I have set the volume in the squeezbox now fixed and control the volume only using the SHD

PS: maybe try the Chrissy plugin?
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SHD vs Squeezebox app volume problem 6 months 2 weeks ago #54824

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Hi,

Thanks... yes I might need to do the Chrissy plugin but just wondering first if there’s some advanced setting I’ve missed on the upnp bridge plugin of LMS.

Does volume stay where you last left it when set to fixed? I’m worried it might set itself to 0db as it does on my Squeezeboxes and result in a world of pain(!) as my SHD runs straight into power amps.

Thanks again

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Last edit: by asx77.

SHD vs Squeezebox app volume problem 6 months 2 weeks ago #54826

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I've said it many times, but perhaps reduce the output channel gains to make 0dB not a problem.
If gain is a problem above -12dB, set all output gains to -12dB and then 0dB will now be what -12dB was, for example.

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SHD vs Squeezebox app volume problem 6 months 2 weeks ago #54835

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Thanks for the suggestion but I've already got the output channels -10db to compensate for any boosts that Dirac applies.

Even with this its just not helpful to have the player jump around volume settings during low level night time listening.

To reiterate the problem and perhaps explain it better....

The Squeezebox APP has a volume range of 0-100 which you can change in increments of 1.
The miniDSP has a volume range of -127.5db - 0db which you can change in increments of 0.5db.

Problem 1) When I change volume on the App, the miniDSP does not change in 0.5db steps but instead jumps anywhere between 1db and 5db! I'm assuming this is because values do not correctly correlate. e.g. 50 on the App would equal -63.75 on the SHD which doesn't exist, so the the SHD jumps to the closest available value (-63.5db or -64db).

Problem 2) If I change the volume using the SHD remote or using the rotary volume control I can change values in 0.5db steps. However, as soon as the playlist moves to the next track, the volume jumps up or down by a few dbs.

For further info:
I've got LMS running on a Synology NAS and use the UPnP/DLNA Bridge.

Questions:
Can I change the volume range of the Squeezebox App to -127.5 - 0 so that volume steps match?
If not, can I stop the SHD and APP from 'sharing' their volume settings with each other so if I use the remote to change volume, the App is oblivious to it?!
Within the advanced settings of LMS, UPnP/DLNA Bridge has Player volume management settings which include: Maximum volume, LMS volume changes options and Feedback to LMS. Are these the settings I need to adjust?

Thanks again

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SHD vs Squeezebox app volume problem 6 months 2 weeks ago #54836

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Volumio had a 0-100 range (at least before the last Roon-compatability upgrade) so the Squeezebox app/plugin 0-100 should have been fine for it. So I wonder if the plugins just haven't quite caught up with the latest Volumio/firmware. Volumio traditionally mapped its 0-100 to the SHD without issues.

The problem with all these phone apps is you tend to end up with too many parts in the chain - app, plugin, volumio and SHD, controlled by different entities, which makes it difficult to update all parts simultaneously when interface details change I guess.

I rarely use Volumio, never use plugins or phone apps so I can't suggest anything other than waiting for updates which hopefully sync all parts to the same interface specs. But I'm just guessing.

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Last edit: by entripy. Reason: fix typos

SHD vs Squeezebox app volume problem 6 months 2 weeks ago #54838

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That’s interesting so how does volumio’s 0-100 scale sync with the SHD’s -127.5-0? Does volumio just cover the -100db - 0db range?

I’ve now found that if I set ‘feedback to LMS’ to ‘no’ in LMS’s upnp bridge plugin then the volume stays as I set it on the separate remote but it’s a real shame I can get the volume to behave because the Squeezebox duet remote is the perfect companion for controlling the SHD. It looks smart

and controls all major functions from the palm of your hand (play, pause, skip, volume, plus lets you select your music). I much prefer it to using apps because you can use it with your eyes closed, literally!! Try using an app without looking eh?!

Hopefully someone familiar with squeezelite/squeezebox may chip in here with an idea otherwise as you say I may be stuck waiting for an update that perhaps won’t come. :(
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SHD vs Squeezebox app volume problem 6 months 2 weeks ago #54840

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SHD/Volumio volume control has a bit of a long and sordid history which I may be remembering incorrectly.
Initially Volumio volume just worked but seperately to SHD volume.
This meant the Volumio volume control was in a poor place for best accuracy so it was disabled, always at 100.
After much tortuous development work eventually Volumio was changed to control the SHD volume.
Recently something was changed for Roon compatibility (I haven't upgraded to that version yet).

Because of the history with Volumio volume disabled at 100 for a long time I got used to never using it. More recently I upgraded to a new Volumio build with a new horrid UI with a plethora of different volume controls which made them unusable for me so I still only use the SHD Volume.

Technically volume isn't as simple as it may seem. Volume control is implemented on the main SHD PCB but Volumio runs on a seperate ARM PCB which appears to only talk to the SHD PCB over a 3 wire serial digital audio interface. Its not at all obvious how Volumio can control SHD volume at all so they must be jumping through hoops to achieve it. My suspicion is that something related to this complexity of implementation and system may have recently broken.
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SHD vs Squeezebox app volume problem 3 months 3 weeks ago #55823

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What is the high-quality manner to integrate and modify two subwoofers? One subwoofer is in the the front of the room and one is inside the again.
snaptube vidmate
Do I actually need to put off simply the the front speakers and the rear sub? And the the front sub stays at delay of zero? I decided the put off of the front sub and rear sub using REW 

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It looks like you have been replying to threads that aren't related to your questions? Maybe you have replied to the wrong threads? If you have specific questions, please start a new thread or you can continue the discussion in the existing threads :) Thank you.
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SHD vs Squeezebox app volume problem 3 months 3 weeks ago #55825

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@Entripy,

you're correct that volume control isn't simple.. :-) 
With this said, there is indeed bidirectional volume control (via control API) done between Volumio/Roon/other plugins and the SHARC DSP. It works fine for a while now. Roon does require 0-100 for certification. A major update of the whole backend was required to accomodate their specific requirement AND all other plugins/range. Just update to the latest volumio AND firmware (else it will never work) and you should be all set for bidirectional control. :-) 

@ asx77

LMS/Squeezebox runs on from an older plugin (open source) that unfortunately hasn't been updated for a while on Volumio..:-( We don't control plugins I'm afraid as this is an open source implementation done on volumio for a while. On upnp it worked fine for us on bubble upnp (www.minidsp.com/applications/audio-streaming/shd-bubbleupnp) or at least I don't recall ever seeing this issue. We don't know the details of LMS (don't have an implementation here) unfortunately... Weird that quite a lot of LMS users here have no problems like yours.. they've been running it on the SHD without any problem.. See the Chrissy plugin thread maybe? 

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SHD vs Squeezebox app volume problem 3 months 1 week ago #56036

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Hi @devteam, Yes I appreciate that on the face of it no one else seems to have this issue. Perhaps others are using as you suggest bubbleUPNP or the Chrissy method. I want to stick with using the squeezebox app because of the Squeezebox Duet remote control (which if you had one you would agree looks and feels like it belongs with a device like the SHD) so that rules out Bubble. 

I'm happy to try the "Chrissy method" but recognise it requires me to ssh into the SHD. I'll raise a ticket so you can provide me with the login credentials I'll need.

Thanks
Alex

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Last edit: by asx77.
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