TOPIC:

Hi @devteam

Does or will the SHD (www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd) support the new Dirac Bass Control feature?

For calibrating crossover for up to 4 subwoofers independently? Using 4 analogue outputs with SHD.

diracdocs.com/Bass Control in Live.pdf

Others have been asking largely the same question here:

www.minidsp.com/forum/dirac-series-suppo...ac-live-bass-control

I say largely as you're talking about 'up to' 4 subs which sounds impossible to me. For bass control to work it needs to handle the signal for the speakers that the subs are being integrated with, so you'd need two of the analogue outputs for left and right main speakers, leaving at most two for subs. Even then I wouldn't be holding your breath for this functionality to appear...

Ultrasonic wrote:

Others have been asking largely the same question here:

www.minidsp.com/forum/dirac-series-suppo...ac-live-bass-control

I say largely as you're talking about 'up to' 4 subs which sounds impossible to me. For bass control to work it needs to handle the signal for the speakers that the subs are being integrated with, so you'd need two of the analogue outputs for left and right main speakers, leaving at most two for subs. Even then I wouldn't be holding your breath for this functionality to appear...

Generally with DACs, the balanced and unbalanced outputs are all active at the same time...

So why not run XLR balanced to power amps or active speakers - and have the 4 unbalanced outputs to 4 subs...

Doesn't seem impossible. Seems like a great candidate actually.

minidsp202020 wrote:

Generally with DACs, the balanced and unbalanced outputs are all active at the same time...

So why not run XLR balanced to power amps or active speakers - and have the 4 unbalanced outputs to 4 subs...

Doesn't seem impossible. Seems like a great candidate actually.

The balanced and unbalanced outputs on the SHD are active at the same time but they carry exactly the same signals (Output 1 Balanced = Output 1 Unbalanced etc). For bass control to work you'd need to send different signals to subs and main speakers.

Ultrasonic wrote:

minidsp202020 wrote:

Generally with DACs, the balanced and unbalanced outputs are all active at the same time...

So why not run XLR balanced to power amps or active speakers - and have the 4 unbalanced outputs to 4 subs...

Doesn't seem impossible. Seems like a great candidate actually.

The balanced and unbalanced outputs on the SHD are active at the same time but they carry exactly the same signals (Output 1 Balanced = Output 1 Unbalanced etc). For bass control to work you'd need to send different signals to subs and main speakers.

I understand, that's why I've asked the question to miniDSP... it would need to be able to re-configure the outputs via Dirac Live setup.

The physical connections are all there to all it to work. So it would be a DSP/firmware thing... that only they can answer?

minidsp202020 wrote:

I understand, that's why I've asked the question to miniDSP... it would need to be able to re-configure the outputs via Dirac Live setup.

The physical connections are all there to all it to work. So it would be a DSP/firmware thing... that only they can answer?

No. You're asking if a device with 4 independent output channels can perform a task that requires at least 6. It can't.

Two subs plus two main speakers is a question only miniDSP staff could tell you if they might be introducing DLBC support for.

Yes! Two main speakers with two subs using DLBC! Please, pretty please, minidsp, make this a software upgrade option for the SHD.

This is a much-needed feature, especially for Mac users who cannot run MSO. I would pay for the license and then an extra $100 or so additional to help defray MiniDSP dev costs. Native 2.2 Dirac Live w/ Bass Control is such a killer feature. No more messing around w/ manual tuning of crossovers, timing, EQ etc.

Hi, if you don’t mind spending a little extra why not get a windows emulator for your mac - a friend of mine with a Mac has told me he’s done this in the past. Or you could grab a cheap second hand windows laptop off eBay. Just a couple of options if you really wanted to get your subs singing with MSO. It’s more hassle but worth it. 

Ultrasonic:
With due respect...  digital values are sent to the four digital output channels independent of ADCs for the four analog output channels.  Currently the four digital output channels and the ADCs for the four analog output channels receive the same values (such that there are four channels, each with a digital output and an analog output), but the values sent to the digital output channels could be different than those sent to the analog output channels.

There is, of course, the question of whether the DSP has sufficient performance to support processing an additional four output channels.  It seems likely that there is sufficient performance to support up to dual 4-way active crossovers, or 2 or more MSO managed channels with less than 4-way active crossovers (at the 96kHz sample rate)...  a DLBC option may also be possible, but it may be more challenging.

FWIW, I suggested that MiniDSP provide a 2:8 channel matrix option for the MiniDSP SHD in the Suggestion Box topic:
    www.minidsp.com/forum/suggestion-box/220...tion-for-minidsp-shd

To those interested in possible SHD support of Dirac Live Base Control functionality (or the other configurations mentioned here and in the suggestion link above):
I don't know if a SHD suggestion made to the Suggestion Box topic is more likely to be noticed or considered than one made here, but it would seem so.  Possibly if you made your interest known in the linked Suggestion Box suggestion, it would increase the odds that it would be noticed and considered (or dismissed with explanation) by the MiniDSP design team.

Hey guys well it is a neat Topic in terms of feature set if we would have the ability to use the DIRAC  bass control feature with the mini DSP shd but unfortunately it's not possible ...not enough outputs or inputs. There's no method of configuration/reconfiguration that will fix that .  The only way it would work is if you bought two of them and had the ability built in to allow them to link together and have the 2 unit functions as a single 8 output device with assignable outputs where you could assign one shd to bass controll and the other dirac live. 

 I think a better implementation of the bass  control feature would be to be able to add this Dirac code to a minidsp 2x4 HD.   Feed the signal into the 2x4HD from one of the shd analog output pairs and let 2x4hd and dirac bass control tune the 4 outputs to control your subs.  Then you can use your shd as you normally do and have it control your mains.  You could even use dirac live on the shd for your mains and still be able to send the signal out to the 2x4 HD with the bass control coding .  It shouldn't be an issue as long as you   set the Dirac  live for the shd to run flat for frequencies of 150hz and down
 this would be the most cost-effective way to implement it ...if again they made the feature available for the 2x4 HD.   But to put it on the std. shd just won't be possible, we need more outputs and we don't have them. 

 IF we can  get DEVTEAM to make an eight Channel version of the shd , that really would be something,  and really do it up,  have it equipped with dual ess9038Pro dacs and  Dual Ess 9822oro ADC's,  with Accusilicon AS318B femtosecond clocks...  I'd be the first to sign up.  Even if it were $3000.  That's not expensive for what it would be able to do!!

amirsag:
Possibly you didn't comprehend my post.  The hardware architecture is such that it is possible for the MiniDSP SHD to have 2 inputs and 8 outputs ("a 2:8 channel matrix option"), with the caveat that 4 of the outputs would be analog, and 4 of the outputs would be digital...  thus requiring external DACs to convert digital outputs to analog if additional analog outputs were needed.

If you are sure you understood my post, and still believe that "it's not possible ... not enough outputs or inputs", please explain.

+1000

Looking forward for this feature.
I would not get my hopes up though, as there is radio silence from MiniDSP on this topic for a while now.

There are 4 DAC channels available (2.2), but it all comes down if the DSP / HW architecture is capable of running this feature. 

@WayneD
There is no reason to persist in being so insufferable. There are only 4 DAC channels available, not 8, even though some DAC channels can be presented as analog and digital. I doubt that anyone appreciates being talked down to, especially by the ill informed.

@MihaiP
Dirac has stated in interviews that their Active Room Treatment doesn't take much more horsepower than regular Dirac Live. That suggests to me that DLBC could most likely manage on MiniDSP hardware; however, MiniDSP devs have previously stated that it might require a significant re-write of the overall architecture to make certain types of software upgrades happen. They are very cagey about announcing new products before they are available, but I share your hope for a 2.2 solution that doesn't require MSO. I am going to stay with a 2.1 system for now and maybe eventually will switch over to consumer grade home theater receiver that supports DLBC and ART. Something like a Denon Xx800H AVR, which are already running ART in beta as of July of this year. I will be watching this space closely.

I really hope that MiniDSP will make a move in this direction. There is a good market opportunity. 

Too bad for the current SHD platform. The hardware is there and capable. The analog part performs quite well (and measures well). The software part is what's keeping the device reaching its full potential.

To my knowledge, there's nothing on the market that offers streaming, 2.2 output and Dirac at this price point.

I was also looking at the new Denon platform, but I don't need the extra bells and whistles. I run active studio midfield monitors and 2 powered subwoofers (all balanced connections).