TOPIC:

questions:
- what sub? Two of outlaw ultra X13
- mono / stereo? stereo
- where is the sub compared to the mains. Left Main sits on top of left Sub. Right Main is 14 inches back and 8 inches inward from the right sub.
- have you measured the sub and the mains "alone"? I measured the mains alone and individual both up close and at listening position. I measured the subs alone at listening position. I have not measured the subs up close.
- reduction in sq compared to what. Compared to sending the full range signal to the mains and the same Full range signal to the subs.

The lack of integration I hear is not volume or loudness related. It sounds more like a timing or character difference. It could be caused by the SHD or or the DACs

entripy wrote:

I would suspect crossover filters spoiling integration. To integrate properly crossovers should take account of the frequency magnitude and phase responses of the drivers to be crossed over.......

hence the measurements and the corrections to flat before applying the standard x-over filtering

entripy wrote:

Crossovers are hard.

yep

I think I dialed in the loudness pretty good. Dirac proably helped with that. I did do Dirac along with each crossover trial.
But I do not know about the phase and how slopes affect phase.
What do you do for phase? Do you do delay inlieu of phase?

xrqp wrote:

.... What do you do for phase? Do you do delay inlieu of phase?

the combination of a flat near field response (before x-over) and the right delay will ensure phase is correct (=parallel phase curves for main and sub) at crossover point. do measure them close range, rooms make a mess of audio

Juoiga, it looks like your the only one so far who reports actually using the crossover feature. It will be interesting if we hear from more people. From what entripy describes, it is too much for me to deal with.

I'm using the xover with stereo subs: 100 Hz LR @ 24dB/o with a small delay on the mains.

It sounds fabulous. I've spent less than an hour on setup and tuning, hope to invest more time over xmas.

I assume your delay was based on your mains being closer to the listening position, that you used LR24 for both the subs and mains, and you included Dirac.

What DACs (make and models) did you use?

Did you compare the sound to all the same, except not using crossover in SHD Studio?

All 4 speakers are in the same plane along the front wall, mains delayed by 1.19ms or about 40cm. DSP on subs is bypassed.

Delay measured with REW before running Dirac. Same xover on all channels.

SHD so no external DACs.

As I mentioned I spent less than an hour on the initial tune. I haven't tried it without a xover and probably won't because my ported floorstanders are jammed into each corner and suffer too much bass reinforcement.

I would also want to use SHD Studio for xover mains and subs. Does anyone use the Studio version for that kind of configuration? A few questions:

1) Does two (identical) spdif dacs keep in sync? If crossing 80-100 Hz, how much would they need to be out of sync for it to get audible?

2) Can you hook up an usb dac to SHD (Studio) usb host port? Would that work with 4 channel usb dac?

3) What would happen, if I plugged a usb hub into that port and two identical usb stereo dacs in it, would I get 4 channels as expected?

Any input highly appreciated!

Overcoat,
how do you do "Delay measured with REW". Is that info in the impulse module?
Did you measure subs separate from mains for that ?

Jukka,
interesting question "Can you hook up an usb dac to SHD (Studio) usb host port? " I assumed no, but I was never sure. On page 14 of the manual they did not say a DAC could not be connected to USB. But they did say a DAC can connect to other outs. I hope you get an answer.

I recommend you get SHD, and not SHD Studio, if you want to use crossover feature - except I have heard no comparisons of how good the DACs are inside the SHD. I would guess they are comparable to Schiit Modi 3 or a little better, but not as good as Bifrost 2.

Jukka wrote:

I would also want to use SHD Studio for xover mains and subs. Does anyone use the Studio version for that kind of configuration? A few questions:

1) Does two (identical) spdif dacs keep in sync? If crossing 80-100 Hz, how much would they need to be out of sync for it to get audible?

2) Can you hook up an usb dac to SHD (Studio) usb host port? Would that work with 4 channel usb dac?

3) What would happen, if I plugged a usb hub into that port and two identical usb stereo dacs in it, would I get 4 channels as expected?

Any input highly appreciated!

2 and 3 won't work, the USB host port doesn't have audio output. You need to use DACs with SPDIF (coax/XLR/optical) input.

1 - people have been using multiple DACs with e.g. nanoDIGI or some time. DACs with internal DSP or long FPGA filters and such might have different latencies depending on their internal settings so could be tricky, maybe better to avoid those. Personally, I think the SHD is the simple (and cheaper) solution.

Thanks for replies!

The SHD dacs are very well implemented, they are audibly transparent as per these measurements: AudioScienceReview .

Why I would want the Studio, is strictly form factor and aesthetics. Easier placement (vertical) etc. Also one can find a multichannel usb dac for less than the price difference between SHD and Studio, but it would complicate everyday use a lot more.

What I really mean with the question 1, is that will two dacs "flange" in relation to each other? If that happens with two identical pain dacs, it would be a nightmare trying to integrate subs. But I'm sure that must be a non-issue because other digital miniDSP are widely used.

I'm sure @devteam has some experience on ways how to use their products and answer to questions in my previous post on this topic

It seems if you used two DACs of same make and model, and set them up the same, that they would not introduce any noticeable timing difference. But the crossover settings, I am not so sure how they affect timing.

AudioScienceReview measured that the SHD had more distortion than other more expensive products. I am not sure what your definition "audibly transparent" is.

Um, it's in the top tier of DACs measured there. The jitter is stated to be inaudible (all below -120 dB).

Assumably, if signal above distortion and noise is greater than 100 dB, any defects are below hearing threshold at most if not all (realistic) circumstances. I'm unable hear much greater distortion, so it should be audibly transparent to me at least

I don't own the SHD, but I do have two identical usb dacs, I probably should do some testing with them. I'm sure xrqp is right about when using two identical dacs.