TOPIC:

Is there a way to use the minidsp 2x4 with the NanoAVR HD?

I had been using the minidsp 2x4 to manage two subwoofers seeing as my receiver only has 1 sub out. I bought the nanoavr to manage the 5.0 speakers and everything went well. So I configured the 5.0 speakers with the nanoavr and reconnected the 2x4. Something sounds wrong with the subs. The sound a little muddled since I connected the nanoavr to the system. With just the 2x4 the bass was clean and controlled. What has the nanoavr done to my bass? I applied no lfe eq to the nanoavr. Everyting should be the same with regards to my subwoofer. Can anyone help?

I bought a minidsp 2x4 with the UMIK-1 microphone to tune my two subwoofer knowing that I would eventually buy a Nanoavr HD to tune the other 5.0 speakers, then purchase the Dirac Live upgrade for the ultimate setup. A three step purchase, if you will. So this is what happened.

With my AV Receiver only having one sub pre-out, the 2x4 worked flawlessly with my two subwoofers. They are at different distances from the MLP and they are different sized too (hence the need for the 2x4). It performed so beautifully that just a week later I bought the Nanoavr HD. I was very exited to EQ all my speakers after such a good experience tuning two subwoofers.

When it arrived, I disconnected the 2x4 connected the Nanoavr and got to work. After playing around and getting familiar with the interface I got all 5.0 speakers tuned in. So now for the subwoofers. After being quite well acquainted with the software, I was fully aware that it had only one subwoofer output. Bear in mind that I absolutely require both subwoofers to be controlled independently with separate time alignments, volume controls, parametric EQ etc. After a few days or so, I realised it simply cannot be done. On to plan B.

I thought "Why not connect my Minidsp 2x4 to the LFE channel out on the Nanoavr? That will give me a way to control the two subwoofers separately again". So I did. I connected the 2x4 back to the sub pre-out on my receiver, plugged it back in and viola. I had conreol over my two subs AND the 5.0 speakers! I was initially very happy. But something was wrong. The subwoofers didn't sound as in-tune as they were when I had the 2x4 connected by itself. I spent a few more days fiddling around with the software to try and resolve the problem. Alas, I came to the conclusion that the Nanoavr just does not work my requirements for two or more subwoofers. It just can't. It will work if you have two or three subwoofers in exactly the same place as each other or at the same distance, but again, the EQ should be individual for each. It may not be impossible, but I don't have any more time to figure it out. I simply can't have two subwoofers playing the same thing at the same volume with the same delay at the same time! The 2x4 can do this with four subwoofers! What a piece of kit for £100 or $. The only way I can think of around this is to buy an av receiver with two independent pre-outs. Bit expensive for me at the moment.

So if you have more than one subwoofer don't buy a Nanoavr HD, HDA or DL. You will find yourself stuck for weeks trying to get it to work before you realise it doesn't. The guys and gals at Minidsp are real talented and make great products but they don't specify that it "may not work correctly if you have a__________ in your setup". I found this out the hard way. Sad thing is, most people who take Home Theater seriously will usually have more than one subwoofer in their setup and almost always want to EQ their system more than a bog standard Audyssey XT32, MCCAC or YPAO and everybody wants Dirac Live etc. Minidsp are the go to people for that alternative.

Just check EVERYTHING before you buy, unlike me. They don't do refunds.

Are you sure you have configured it correctly? Why don't you post your config and/or some measurements.

Config is a HTPC running Windows 10 64-bit. Denon x540bt AV receiver, 5.2 setup. Umm, what more do you need to know?

Oh, I'm using a computer monitor from my display port in my graphics card and a HDMI out from the graphics card, too. I don't think it matters. What measurements you need?

In the nanoAVR plugin, save your config to a file and then post it here. You may need to add ".txt" to the end of the filename to post it.

Ok I think I've done it right.

Now this is the correct file. Sorry about that.

I'm not seeing an obvious issue here but have a couple of comments. Just to confirm first: you have disabled the bass management in the AVR? (All speakers set to large, delays/distance set to zero or the same value)?

No, in the AVR i didn't set all speakers to large. Delay, distance all set at same values, yes. What would setting the speakers to large do?

By the way thanks for helping me out.

Just having a look at the software, it's obvious it can only handle 1 sub out. Unless these's a trick I have not thought of.

jaz wrote:

No, in the AVR i didn't set all speakers to large. Delay, distance all set at same values, yes. What would setting the speakers to large do?

Setting them to large turns off the bass management in the AVR. As it is now, it seems you have bass management in the nanoAVR and in the AVR. It needs to be one or the other.

Let me just compile some thoughts on how to proceed and I'll post them a bit later.

Just having a look at the software, it's obvious it can only handle 1 sub out. Unless these's a trick I have not thought of.

HDMI 1.4 is only 8 channels. You could route the LFE Mgt signal to channels 7 and 8 and control the subs independently , however for that to be any use your AVR would need to be 7.1. So you do need the keep the 2x4 to control the subs independently.

Thanks for educating me about setting ALL speakers to large. Just thought I'd inform you that i didn't set my speakers to large for the 2x4 alone. But that sounded ok. Ill have another go at the Nanoavr later today but in the meantime ill wait for your thoughts on this. Thanks again for your help. Minidsp are good but they take a few days to respond and nobody else does. Thanks.

No worries

First just a few comments on the config.

1. You have a low pass filter on the LFE input and on the Sub Out channel. However, it’s most likely that the AVR is already applying a low pass filter on its own subwoofer output (which can’t be disabled - you would know for sure when you measure it.) I think you should disable those low pass filters in the nanoAVR.
2. You have an 18 kHz low pass filter on all speakers except the front left. I’m not sure why but I guess I would disable those.
3. You have some PEQ on the speaker channels but they are all below the high pass frequency, so will have little to no effect.
4. I don’t know if your HTPC ever produces content in the rear surrounds but FWIW I like to route RL In and and RR In to SL Out and SR Out “just in case.”
5. Your left and right surrounds have different delays but I guess that's on purpose.

Once you've made those changes (especially #1), run a measurement on the LFE/sub channel. [Edit: this is with the 2x4 in place between the AVR sub out and the two subs.] It should look like the red graph in the app note www.minidsp.com/applications/home-theate...ning/bass-management



When you get that far, could you post that measurement (just the LFE/sub at this point)?

Ok so...

1. No problem, i can do that

2. I can do that

3. How do i apply a peq on the high pass filter? I dont remember an option for that. I just used rew to measure from 20hz to 20khz, applied the filters then impoted.

4. I THINK i understand your point here. Ill try this too.

5. Those delays are intended. It works.

Ill post the graph once its ready.

Thanks for the feedback. Ill get on it and give that a go today.