TOPIC:

I am awaiting the release of the Flex Digital. I plan on connecting PC > Flex Digital > Parasound P6 DAC/Preamp > Power Amp > Speakers. Would it be better to control the volume with the Flex Digital or the Parasound P6 DAC/Preamp?

Downstream is ideal keeping MOL, 
but honestly, I can’t tell the difference 

denver8me4dinner wrote:

Downstream is ideal keeping MOL, 
 

Sorry if I'm being thick but what does MOL mean?

Going with what sounds best is the ultimate answer but I can think of one reason to favour using the Flex. This is because Dirac Live needs some headroom for EQ boosts it may apply, although this only becomes potentially significant for signals that get about -10 dBFS. This can be managed by applying a fixed attenuation of -10 dB in the preset settings (via the plugin) but I prefer managing this with the master volume, because it means that for quieter sources or recordings I'm  not limiting peak volume unnecessarily.

MOL is maximum output level 

it’s an old term that dates tape and reel…it’s roughly 3% distortion on analog IIRC

it just means maximum output….. it doesn’t really apply to digital as FS is sorta like MOL in a sense. 

i used wrong term,  maybe you can help .
ideally unity gain is what I go for…. But upstream digital stuff don’t you just max it out and let it play it’s max without boosts of course. 

what is the proper terminology?

i mean, I’ve heard of you cut the volume on a digital source you are also cutting dynamic range. 
wouldn’t you want a sort of unity gain? Like keep all upstream devices to output what the media is playing?  

it seems cutting the digital signal upstream and boosting and boosting it downstream changes the signal a little ….. No? 

help me out here ….. I’ve always kept everything at 0 and only cut one device for volume, not two. 

 

denver8me4dinner wrote:

MOL is maximum output level 

it’s an old term that dates tape and reel…it’s roughly 3% distortion on analog IIRC

it just means maximum output….. it doesn’t really apply to digital as FS is sorta like MOL in a sense. 

i used wrong term,  maybe you can help .
ideally unity gain is what I go for…. But upstream digital stuff don’t you just max it out and let it play it’s max without boosts of course. 

what is the proper terminology?

i mean, I’ve heard of you cut the volume on a digital source you are also cutting dynamic range. 
wouldn’t you want a sort of unity gain? Like keep all upstream devices to output what the media is playing?  

it seems cutting the digital signal upstream and boosting and boosting it downstream changes the signal a little ….. No? 

help me out here ….. I’ve always kept everything at 0 and only cut one device for volume, not two. 
 

As I said in my post above, if there are EQ boosts applied then these can lead to digital clipping if no attenuation is applied, so some attenuation can be beneficial. Maybe read my previous post again as I did say a bit ore on this there.

I'm not planning on using Dirac Live, just some EQ tweaks in the plugin. So when not using Dirac Live 0db is fine? And when using Dirac Live you don't want to go louder than -10db? I will probably just leave it on 0db and adjust volume with my preamp if that's the case.

grimesw wrote:

I'm not planning on using Dirac Live, just some EQ tweaks in the plugin. So when not using Dirac Live 0db is fine? And when using Dirac Live you don't want to go louder than -10db? I will probably just leave it on 0db and adjust volume with my preamp if that's the case.

It depends whether you apply any EQ boosts or not. If you do then you risk digital clipping if some attenuation isn't applied but please read my first post above for a more detailed answer.

denver8me4dinner wrote:

MOL is maximum output level 

it’s an old term that dates tape and reel…it’s roughly 3% distortion on analog IIRC

it just means maximum output….. it doesn’t really apply to digital as FS is sorta like MOL in a sense. 

i used wrong term,  maybe you can help .
ideally unity gain is what I go for…. But upstream digital stuff don’t you just max it out and let it play it’s max without boosts of course. 

what is the proper terminology?

i mean, I’ve heard of you cut the volume on a digital source you are also cutting dynamic range. 
wouldn’t you want a sort of unity gain? Like keep all upstream devices to output what the media is playing?  

it seems cutting the digital signal upstream and boosting and boosting it downstream changes the signal a little ….. No? 

help me out here ….. I’ve always kept everything at 0 and only cut one device for volume, not two. 

 

As I said in my post above, if there are EQ boosts applied then these can lead to digital clipping if no attenuation is applied, so some attenuation can be beneficial. Maybe read my previous post again as I did say a bit ore on this there.

i re read it, apparently your not reading mine. 

it’s ok …. We can just stop here we’re saying the same thing. I think 🤔 


i replied and asked a question and got the whole I didn’t read your post bit…. When in fact I did and responded appropriately. I even asked you a question as you seem to know more apparently.

im not interested in being right, I’m only Interested in helping ppl and learning. That’s the spirit of a public forum. I’m not trying to choose my words or weigh them, everything is off the cuff and it’s just chat….  If my terminology bothers you then please explain it to us. If my point gets lost in the whole worried about terminology instead then why even try to stay on track with discussion.
I would suggest we all are smart enough to know what we’re trying to say. 

have a good day.   

Deleted.

denver8me4dinner wrote:

i re read it, apparently your not reading mine. 

it’s ok …. We can just stop here we’re saying the same thing. I think 🤔 


i replied and asked a question and got the whole I didn’t read your post bit…. When in fact I did and responded appropriately. I even asked you a question as you seem to know more apparently.

You really have misinterpretted my post there. I simply referred back to my earlier post as I'd given a more nuanced explanation as to when attenuation would be needed, since it depeands on source level and musical content rather than it being a simple one-size-fits-all situation.

If you could try to succinctly explain what you don't understand I can try again.

I plan on connecting PC > Flex Digital > Parasound P6 DAC/Preamp > Power Amp > Speakers. Would it be better to control the volume with the Flex Digital or the Parasound P6 DAC/Preamp?

with Parasound.

i mean, I’ve heard of you cut the volume on a digital source you are also cutting dynamic range. 
wouldn’t you want a sort of unity gain? Like keep all upstream devices to output what the media is playing?  

it seems cutting the digital signal upstream and boosting and boosting it downstream changes the signal a little ….. No? 

yes, a little, every conversion, even digital-to-digital can, conversion works best at full scale, less losses in the dynamic range

 

From what I understand the minidsp is usi g 24bit for volume control. If you're listening to cd quality you can reduce the volume to -48dB before you start losing any resolution. I would always chop components out of the chain when I can. My SHD is connected direct to power amps and subs. 

asx77 wrote:

From what I understand the minidsp is usi g 24bit for volume control. 

I think the volume control processing is 32 bit actually.

Hi @Ultrasonic, Oh well even better. Is that for all lines? I've the DDRC-24 and SHD and always thought they were only 24bit volume. 

asx77 wrote:

Hi @Ultrasonic, Oh well even better. Is that for all lines? I've the DDRC-24 and SHD and always thought they were only 24bit volume. 

I believe that the volume adjustment is carried out on the DSP chips, which for the DDRC-24 and SHD are 32 bit.