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Balanced Flex- Inconsistent performance from each output channel. 5 months 4 weeks ago #59328

  • Mivera1
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BTW I heard back about the first unit, and one of the output stage caps was bad. 
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Balanced Flex- Inconsistent performance from each output channel. 5 months 4 weeks ago #59337

  • Ultrasonic
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Bypassing means enabling the bypass button in the PEQ, and using no crossover on all channels. Or simply leaving the PEQ flat so the DSP chip isn’t being utilized at all. Like how Amir measured his unit on ASR. Is that how most people will use their Flex in the real world?

Are you suggesting that the 115 SINAD I measured from the best channel when the unit was new was due to user error with my analyzer? Explain how that is possible? 


No to your last point but I was wondering about your latest results still looking significantly below spec. What is the answer to my question?

Note my point above about the DSP chip likely always being in the signal circuit but no I obviously don't expect anyone to buy a Flex and use no DSP.

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Balanced Flex- Inconsistent performance from each output channel. 5 months 4 weeks ago #59345

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I’m using the same settings and the same cable for all channels. My analyzer doesn’t have any bias towards channels 1&2 over channels 3&4. It only tells us the THD+N of the connected output. 

So are you suggesting that the DSP chip is under equal load, regardless of the crossover slopes, and amount of PEQ bands? How about with Dirac enabled? 

There’s something called EMI that increases with all processors as their load increases. And depending on the board layout, and the amount of isolation between the DSP chip and the DAC, it’s possible for that increased EMI to conduct into the DAC chip. 

I’m getting 7dB more distortion with the light load increase of 4 bands of PEQ between 150-600hz. And a LR4 high pass filter at 100hz. All the harmonics are measured after the 1000hz test tone. So I suspect that this is occurring from increased conducted EMI. And this is a very light load. FIR is much higher. So it’s probably worse with Dirac enabled. But my clients who bought these units don’t want to buy the Dirac. So I can’t test with it enabled. 

 

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Balanced Flex- Inconsistent performance from each output channel. 5 months 4 weeks ago #59351

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I’m using the same settings and the same cable for all channels. My analyzer doesn’t have any bias towards channels 1&2 over channels 3&4. It only tells us the THD+N of the connected output. 
 


My biggest concern over the data you've shared for the second unit would not be any difference between channels but the overall level of distortion shown, since this seems too high. I therefore asked what I did to try to establish what confidence we could have in the accuracy of the measurements in this regard. 

My comments re. the DSP chip have meant exactly what I've said. Nothing more or less.

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Balanced Flex- Inconsistent performance from each output channel. 5 months 4 weeks ago #59353

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The distortion is coming from the Flex, not my analyzer. If my analyzer was the distortion bottleneck, I wouldn’t have been able to measure the 115 SINAD when the unit was new. Which has now degraded to 107-108 depending on how warm it is. My analyzer maxes out at 116 SINAD. 

I’ll also report that enabling the crossover and PEQ, no longer is adding distortion, now that channels 1&2 degraded by 7-8dB following burn in. And after 48 hours there’s been no further degradation. 

Also all of my tests shared here have been with the DSP bypassed. 

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Balanced Flex- Inconsistent performance from each output channel. 5 months 4 weeks ago #59354

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The distortion is coming from the Flex, not my analyzer. If my analyzer was the distortion bottleneck, I wouldn’t have been able to measure the 115 SINAD when the unit was new. Which has now degraded to 107-108 depending on how warm it is. My analyzer maxes out at 116 SINAD. 

I’ll also report that enabling the crossover and PEQ, no longer is adding distortion, now that channels 1&2 degraded by 7-8dB following burn in. And after 48 hours there’s been no further degradation. 

Also all of my tests shared here have been with the DSP bypassed. 

Have you measured the performance of any other devices?

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Balanced Flex- Inconsistent performance from each output channel. 5 months 4 weeks ago #59356

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I build audio gear for a living. I didn’t spend $10000 on an analyzer just to measure this Flex only. Stop listening to clowns over on ASR. 

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Balanced Flex- Inconsistent performance from each output channel. 5 months 4 weeks ago #59357

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Channels 1&2 and 3&4 after 48 hrs burn in. All DSP bypassed. 

 
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Balanced Flex- Inconsistent performance from each output channel. 5 months 4 weeks ago #59358

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I build audio gear for a living. I didn’t spend $10000 on an analyzer just to measure this Flex only. Stop listening to clowns over on ASR. 

Great. So if you measure say another DAC now, does its performance comfortably match the manufacturer's spec? 

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Balanced Flex- Inconsistent performance from each output channel. 5 months 4 weeks ago #59359

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When I measure a good one it does. 

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Balanced Flex- Inconsistent performance from each output channel. 5 months 4 weeks ago #59360

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When I measure a good one it does. 

I very deliberately said now. Just to confirm everything is still working as it should be. Your data would be more compelling if you confirmed this.

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Balanced Flex- Inconsistent performance from each output channel. 5 months 4 weeks ago #59361

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My analyzer is perfectly fine. My Merging Anubis measures within 0.2dB SINAD on all 8 channels. And the channel to channel voltage is matched to 4 decimal places. 

Not sure why you can’t understand that when 1 channel measures at 115 SINAD, then you unplug the same TRS cable and move it to another output, and it measures differently, that it could be user error. With all the same settings, and the same cable. I have only shared 4 sets of measurements so far of the same unit. Should be enough. 

For any further questions I have a thread on this at my own forum. I’m done here. 

www.maverickaudioforum.com/forum/active-...cessors/minidsp-flex
 
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Balanced Flex- Inconsistent performance from each output channel. 5 months 4 weeks ago #59362

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Not sure why you can’t understand that when 1 channel measures at 115 SINAD, then you unplug the same the same TRS cable and move it to another output, and it measures differently, that it could be user error. With all the same settings, and the same cable. I have only shared 4 sets of measurements so far of the same unit. Should be enough. 

 

Just on this point, say all harmonic distortion was showing results 20 dB higher than they actually were: you'd still see differences  but it wouldn't mean the results were correct. This is why I was keen to confirm wider performance.

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