TOPIC:

I am currently using the MiniDSP 2x4 HD and was wondering would it worth the upgrade to Flex.
What would be the main difference if I am using the Analog Inputs only?

Kevin72 wrote:

I am currently using the MiniDSP 2x4 HD and was wondering would it worth the upgrade to Flex.
What would be the main difference if I am using the Analog Inputs only?

From the limited info. out so far I suspect the only real diffence that you'd notice would be in terms of gaining the display to show volume etc, and the volume knob. If you're using your 2x4 HD as a digital pre-amp you may well appreciate this as a major upgrade though - I did when going to an SHD in this context.

What is the alternative to run from an AVR?  Seems that AVR's only have unbalanced output for multi-channel?

tjcinnamon wrote:

What is the alternative to run from an AVR?  Seems that AVR's only have unbalanced output for multi-channel?

There is a Flex model with unbalanced inputs but what what are you looking do achieve in conjunction with an AVR? Bear in mind that the Flex only only has 2 input channels.

I basically need to tweak some delay/trims for my mains before Dirac.  I also need to split my LR to work with some attached atmos speakers that I run in an inverse phase.  I want to add a high pass filter, some delay on those atmos speakers too.  I currently really like the sound with that atypical set up, so I’m looking to make it better (to me).  2 ins and 4 outs is perfect. 

tjcinnamon wrote:

I basically need to tweak some delay/trims for my mains before Dirac.  I also need to split my LR to work with some attached atmos speakers that I run in an inverse phase.  I want to add a high pass filter, some delay on those atmos speakers too.  I currently really like the sound with that atypical set up, so I’m looking to make it better (to me).  2 ins and 4 outs is perfect. 

To check, you don't want to send 'proper' Atmos channels from you AVR to your Atmos speakers, but a version of the left and right front speaker signals (as processed in the Flex)? And when you mention Dirac are you referring to on your AVR or a Flex?

Sounds like you know what you want but just making sure  .

 

Actually, wherever Dirac is I wonder if it would pose problems that what it would 'expect' to be the left and right front speakers would be these plus the Atmos speakers playing at the same time. You may know from elsewhere that this 'works' but naively I'd question this.

Correct.  These are Polk L800’s with SDA so they are already a crazy speaker.  They have atmos in the top of them.  I thought I’d not use them because I already have 4 atmos in the ceiling but what I found was if I run the left and the right through them in an inverse phase they sound remarkably better.  Same phase they sound terrible, and opposite channel and inverse phase (a make shift SDA) they sound bad too.  But same channel inverse phase sounds better than no atmos.

Dirac is through the AVR.  I can’t adjust channel gains after Dirac.  Dirac always puts my Left 1dB higher than my right and it puts the center of the music to the left.  So I’m sure mathematically it’s correct but “visually” (as it relates to sound stage) it’s skewed left.  I could use a DSP to mess with the trim or delay before Dirac to get mathematically corrected balance or simply adjust post Dirac and likely “ruin” the Dirac secret sauce 

tjcinnamon wrote:

Correct.  These are Polk L800’s with SDA so they are already a crazy speaker.  They have atmos in the top of them.  I thought I’d not use them because I already have 4 atmos in the ceiling but what I found was if I run the left and the right through them in an inverse phase they sound remarkably better.  Same phase they sound terrible, and opposite channel and inverse phase (a make shift SDA) they sound bad too.  But same channel inverse phase sounds better than no atmos.

Dirac is through the AVR.  I can’t adjust channel gains after Dirac.  Dirac always puts my Left 1dB higher than my right and it puts the center of the music to the left.  So I’m sure mathematically it’s correct but “visually” (as it relates to sound stage) it’s skewed left.  I could use a DSP to mess with the trim or delay before Dirac to get mathematically corrected balance or simply adjust post Dirac and likely “ruin” the Dirac secret sauce 

This may not be applicable to your AVR but for info. the latest version of Dirac Live that can be downloaded from their website gives users the option to not make channel gain and timing adjustments. If you don't have this then you'd need to make a manual compensation AFTER running Dirac, not before (Dirac would just 'fix' the latter).

tjcinnamon wrote:

Correct.  These are Polk L800’s with SDA so they are already a crazy speaker.  They have atmos in the top of them.  I thought I’d not use them because I already have 4 atmos in the ceiling but what I found was if I run the left and the right through them in an inverse phase they sound remarkably better.  Same phase they sound terrible, and opposite channel and inverse phase (a make shift SDA) they sound bad too.  But same channel inverse phase sounds better than no atmos.

Dirac is through the AVR.  I can’t adjust channel gains after Dirac.  Dirac always puts my Left 1dB higher than my right and it puts the center of the music to the left.  So I’m sure mathematically it’s correct but “visually” (as it relates to sound stage) it’s skewed left.  I could use a DSP to mess with the trim or delay before Dirac to get mathematically corrected balance or simply adjust post Dirac and likely “ruin” the Dirac secret sauce 

oh the sauce …… yes I love the sauce…..


i don’t think it would ruin the sauce, you would just have to find the sauce with levels after Dirac… 

so I haven’t played with the new Dirac feature yet,   What ultrasonic said tho would make some possibilities. So the “normalized” outputs in Dirac would maybe no longer show as normalized I wonder….. I’m definitely going to explore that. 

i can see uses for not letting Dirac adjust levels. I’m curious if you can have it ignore levels on specific channels (like in an 8x12dl)…. But keep its level adjustment on the rest… 

i hope they fixed the turn off Dirac filters feature, that never worked in 3.1 right 

Personally the upgrade is in the construction and specs alone. Better input and output impedance for starters, less noise, and a decent grounding. For those of us into using it for BEQ, there is a pretty high ground noise level so if you are doing equalization of LFE the you can get audible mains noise for say over 35db low shelf gain that is hard to eliminate. For starters having a decent chassis ground is a good way at eliminating that. 

Now on the balanced side even better - if you are lucky enough to have an AVR setup that can output balanced to subs

And the construction itself - all connections on the rear. The front back setup on the 2x4 series is just irritating ad messy. It is the one ugly duck in my current setup. The flex will fix that.

Kevin72 wrote:

I am currently using the MiniDSP 2x4 HD and was wondering would it worth the upgrade to Flex.
What would be the main difference if I am using the Analog Inputs only?

 

Apologies for resurrecting an older thread, but I have this exact same question with the addition that does it make a difference using Dirac Live? I already have a DDRC-24 and looking to get additional units for my other systems. I only use the Analog In/Out with XO for room modes correction and use Dirac Live. My understanding is that Dirac always defaults to 48KHz internal processing. Reading through AudioScienceReview discussions, seems like the A2A SNR numbers for Flex seems to be 115dB (published) while 2x4 HD seems to be 86dB (unpublished)?

vvume wrote:

Kevin72 wrote:

I am currently using the MiniDSP 2x4 HD and was wondering would it worth the upgrade to Flex.
What would be the main difference if I am using the Analog Inputs only?


 

Apologies for resurrecting an older thread, but I have this exact same question with the addition that does it make a difference using Dirac Live? I already have a DDRC-24 and looking to get additional units for my other systems. I only use the Analog In/Out with XO for room modes correction and use Dirac Live. My understanding is that Dirac always defaults to 48KHz internal processing. Reading through AudioScienceReview discussions, seems like the A2A SNR numbers for Flex seems to be 115dB (published) while 2x4 HD seems to be 86dB (unpublished)?

I can only compare numbers as you have but my take would be this: the FLEX likely has slightly better performance, and being the newer model may end up being supported for longer into the future. Depending on your application, the addition of the screen to the FLEX model may be significant too. The DDRC-24 is cheaper though, and currently in stock. Only you can decide what makes most sense for you.

I can only compare numbers as you have but my take would be this: the FLEX likely has slightly better performance, and being the newer model may end up being supported for longer into the future. Depending on your application, the addition of the screen to the FLEX model may be significant too. The DDRC-24 is cheaper though, and currently in stock. Only you can decide what makes most sense for you.

I wish we had more clarity on this exact improvement. While things like screens and volume controls are nice, I control them in my source and so not of much value for unbalanced A2A (and there is genuine value in the new offerings in the balanced and digital output versions). Your point about support is very valid - given that the 2x4 HD platform has been around for 6+ years, I guess there is a real risk of it being suddenly losing support (esp. the software side). I recollect the nanoDIGI 2x8 being deprecated just as I was seriously thinking of ordering it and that wasn't replaced with an equivalent solution at that price point.

I am very happy with my DDRC-24 performance in my main system, but I have struggled to get Dirac room correction to not distort my Polk R200 speakers. It works fantastic with my Sound Artist LS3/5a and my Emotiva T0+ speakers, and so I know it isn't the unit or amp in the same room. The only thing I can think of is that the R200 resolves far more to expose the DDRC-24's average SNR or R200 needs more taps than what is on offer with the DDR-24, but I don't think the Flex is different in this regard either?

vvume wrote:

I am very happy with my DDRC-24 performance in my main system, but I have struggled to get Dirac room correction to not distort my Polk R200 speakers. It works fantastic with my Sound Artist LS3/5a and my Emotiva T0+ speakers, and so I know it isn't the unit or amp in the same room. The only thing I can think of is that the R200 resolves far more to expose the DDRC-24's average SNR or R200 needs more taps than what is on offer with the DDR-24, but I don't think the Flex is different in this regard either?

Distortion is most likely to be due to digital signal clipping I'd have thought. If your analogue input peak level is close to the maximum that the DDRC-24 can accept then boosts applied by Dirac Live can cause this. The solution is to apply up to 10 dB attenuation on your miniDSP to avoid this, which can be as simple as setting the master volume to -10 dB. You could of course be overloading the input of the miniDSP too.