TOPIC:

Read the manual. From the description, the USB input is only for the measurement setup etc, and not for playback. SPDIF, Toslink, and AES are mentioned as digital inputs for playback/correction, but not the USB input;

Is this correct? If so, it is rather a strange choice, as most audiophile music servers these days have USB output as their best output format.

orangeart wrote:

Architect7 wrote:

orangeart wrote:

That xmc-1 Looks amazing, now if only they did an active crossover version instead of 7.1 I'd be on that bandwagon very quickly, it looks like a very grown up product for the money.

Remember that the XMC-1 is rumored to be limited to 48khz. The MiniDSP retains Dirac's full resolution capabilities of 96khz.

Not everyone has an audiophile-centric HTPC which can significantly increase alternative costs. At $900, this is a bargain for what you get. I see this being used in a signal chain before one of MiniDSPs many crossover products for a high-end active two channel system.

I've no need to listen to anything beyond the 44.1khz CD or Flac files I have TBH.
I'm sure that MiniDSP's Dirac product will find many a happy home. If there is ever a DIY version with cross over functionality or at least 12s out that will stack with my minisharc I might get one.

Stefan

Yep, it is just kind of funny because BluRay HD audio would benefit from 96khz headroom in the Emotiva and stereo audio is more likely to be limited to 44.1khz...but nice that the MiniDSP has a full version. I have also heard that the Emotiva unit will be watered down in other areas to help keep Theta and Datasat happy such as less target curves, etc.

What excites me most is that we have options and the world of room correction is driven to improve so much. We're moving away from "black boxes" or "zero-automation" and towards an understanding of what improves sound regardless of environment and less guesswork/more automation to drive these improvements for us mere mortals (read:nonprofessionals). While this specific MiniDSP offering may not be for everyone, it is definitely the right step towards changing the game. I will be tempted to use one in my vehicle similar to the Bentley Continental GT and BMW M5 implementations.

Architect7 wrote:

Yep, it is just kind of funny because BluRay HD audio would benefit from 96khz headroom in the Emotiva and stereo audio is more likely to be limited to 44.1khz...but nice that the MiniDSP has a full version. I have also heard that the Emotiva unit will be watered down in other areas to help keep Theta and Datasat happy such as less target curves, etc.

What excites me most is that we have options and the world of room correction is driven to improve so much. We're moving away from "black boxes" or "zero-automation" and towards an understanding of what improves sound regardless of environment and less guesswork/more automation to drive these improvements for us mere mortals (read:nonprofessionals). While this specific MiniDSP offering may not be for everyone, it is definitely the right step towards changing the game. I will be tempted to use one in my vehicle similar to the Bentley Continental GT and BMW M5 implementations.

Problem is that using 96khz requires far more taps for room correction, or put another way, limiting the DSP to 48Khz means that the available taps can do far more correction. Accepting the argument that 44.1khz is enough to reproduce the audible spectrum (and it is) then it makes far more sense to go with the 48khx version and be able to do more room correction processing. BTW 96khz makes no difference to headroom, headroom is based on bit depth. This gear is 32 bit floating point anyway so plenty of headroom.

My brother in law has a Bentley Continental with Dirac, It works very nicely indeed.

Stefan

orangeart wrote:

Problem is that using 96khz requires far more taps for room correction, or put another way, limiting the DSP to 48Khz means that the available taps can do far more correction.

What i would like to know is the exact capability of the Dirac stuff to manage phase corrections in the low frequency range while operating at 96khz. Hope they haven't sacrificed too much on this for the sake of claiming 96khz instead of a politically poorer 48khz spec.

Olivier wrote:

Yes, it's clear that the biggest value of the package is the software. But now, and being honnest, i ask myself: ¿Using open source stuff, do i have myself the sufficient knowlegde and skills to set up a DRC based on mutiple measurements points?

Yes, I looked into all kinds of other DRC options for my setup, and many of them seemed a little daunting to me. That, and the fact that many are not a complete solution (need JACK and a convolver etc.). Dirac live rocks! It is a complete solution and makes very quick and easy work of taking the multiple measurements. That was one of the reasons I eventually bought it. That, and the fact that it works so well. I had the free demo setup and running on my system in about an hour, and after listening and comparing back and fourth between corrected and uncorrected over the course of a week or so, my decision was made. I love it, I bought it .

The software alone is well worth the cost, in my view, but I am loving the fact that miniDSP is offering a hardware solution for Dirac Live (just crossing my fingers that they will soon offer the hardware alone for folks like me who've already bought Dirac live).

Rob

firedog wrote:

Read the manual. From the description, the USB input is only for the measurement setup etc, and not for playback. SPDIF, Toslink, and AES are mentioned as digital inputs for playback/correction, but not the USB input;

Hi there, correct, USB is for control only.

Is it possible to program existing miniSHARC / openDRC hardware with the DIRAC plugin? If so, will the DIRAC software be made available separately?
Also, is the DIRAC software license paired to the physical hardware, ie. is it possible to control multiple DIRAC processors with a single computer?

To be clear, I think the unit is "worth it", compared to almost any other thing you can possibly do to upgrade your system. The even more expensive DEQX box is "worth it". What I'm pondering is "to how MANY people?"

My assumption was that DiracLive and MiniDSP saw a way to combine forces and take both of their technologies more mainstream and get beyond the niche within a niche that is high-end DIY. I'm just wondering if anyone even attempted a market study and I'm going to guess that there wasn't one.

John wrote:

high-end DIY

Hi John just wondering if that's a typo? (Not very much DIY with the DDRC)

Home built speakers.

The real market for this product is the custom installation market, and at the price, it will certainly sell for the high-end market.

The irony, of course, is that it's the low-end market that needs the correction most and is the biggest customer for it. That's when the price becomes a factor. A $200/pr inceiling or inwall speaker would benefit most from correction, but people are unlikely to put in a $900 processor to do that. Especially when they might need 8 of them to cover their home. But should some one have to pay 8 $500 licensing fees just to clean up the sound of their speakers? I don't think but a few customers will go for that. Most people will appreciate the difference, but it isn't going to make them shell out $5000-$10,000.....because they probably were too cheap to buy the $500/pair speakers over the $200/pair speakers to start. Now, if you could build an 8-channel version of this for $1200-$1500 with a single license fee, that would be a lot more attractive, and be useful for home theater or multi-zone audio.

Then there's the high-end market, but those folks are super finicky and they very much tend to go for placebos because they "love the sound of their speakers" and don't want to take that sound away. They just want to make it "better". Anyway, they'll largely ignore and even if they don't, they'd be obsessed with jitter numbers, because they believe in stuff like that. Plus it doesn't have a 1/4" thick chassis with gold inlays so..........

Anyway, I went through all this with the Audyssey 8-channel processor which was a flop, and the DEQX processor which I did sell and really does work incredibly well, but the resistance by audiophiles was unbelievable.

Another thing I see is that these things aren't just going to sell themselves. Most people who need it won't feel comfortable with doing the process. I think making the mic and stand (how big is this stand,anyway?) will help, but it's the licensing that is in the way here.

One of the possible remedies is to lower the price on the single unit slightly and make the mic/stand an option, but then offer larger discounts for multiple puchases. For instance, being able to buy 5 for $600 each or 10 for $500 each, something like that. This does two things - it makes the units dramatically more sellable in custom install markets where 5 or 6 could go into a single home, or for hotels which have the same issue (one of my hotel customers has something like 20 different zones) AND it allows the group here the ability to buy for less money and then resell them and offer their services to promote, sell and install the product to the people who need it most.

This is critical for MiniDSP because if a company like NAD or Denon adopts it, they will be able to do this kind of thing at large scale with an imbedded dealer base and still come through with a price as low or lower. But if MiniDSP sits on the sideline and sells a few here and there, it won't get traction, it won't get delivery and someone else will come along and say "great idea, now watch us copy it and sell it to everyone".

This is the kind of thing that hundreds of people will buy for themselves, or that hundreds of dealers could sell to tens of thousands of customers who will never otherwise have any idea what MiniDSP is.

Sure John, but it's a long way before these major companies massify the DRC, basically because all their marketing to this date has contributed to make the public at large associate DSP to merely Sound Effects ( Echo, Cathedral, Stadium, Sourround, etc...), and over 95% of their prospect do not have the slightest idea about what Digital Room Correction means and involves. Even an equalizer is for most people an effect engine, and nothing more. A big cultural revolution is necesary before these guys begin to understand the concept of SOUND CORRECTION ( NOT SOUND EFFECT) and discover themselves a real need for this sort of stuff and generate a substantial demand. Without mentioning the need to give all the dealers and sales people ( how many on the planet, 1.000.000 guys?) the necessary backgound and skills to make proper demos...

Yes but that is my point. The DSP revolution is stuck on pause because everyone is afraid to lower their prices, work with dealers and sell a lot of product.

At low prices, Berhinger has made some adepts among dyers with its Ultracurve and Ultradrive, but i guess they share the small niche market as Minidsp. Even in the big semi pro audio market, the vast majority of customers and dealers have no idea about what this gear is made for.

When I started selling Sonos it was extremely laborious to sell. It toik a good hour to explain it but once they understood it they had to have it. We sold more than the local Best Buy. But you had to demo it and take the time. How will a typical person ever hear a diraclive demo? Hear about it.how? You can't build a successful sales model on customer luck, perseverance and risk taking....not at this price. How would you even return it if you aren't happy?

Keep in mind here, I'm not talking about the people here, but the 10x people that won't buy it for the price and the 1000x people who won't buy it because they'll never have heard about it.

Also keep in mind that Behringer sells a boatload of product, even though it is geared exclusively for the pro market. I imagine they sell between 50x and 500x as many of their DSP box than DEQX does of theirs.