Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

NOTE: This is a "Community" forum. Please be mindful that community members are here to help as part of a community effort. We therefore appreciate your effort in keeping this forum a happy place!

If you have a specific issue (e.g. hardware, failure) and want help from our support team, please use our tech support portal (Support menu - > Contact Us).
Thanks a lot of your help in making a better community.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC:

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 11 months 5 days ago #58335

  • bandyka
  • bandyka's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Thank you received: 9
Hello,

I am just wondering, as I can't seem to find a straight answer to this.

I am currently running a 2x4 to integrate my two independent subs using manual integration, measuring with REW. I use Dirac via an Arcam receiver to integrate the entire system.
I am wondering if the DDRC24 upgrade would allow me to use Dirac to integrate the two subs with one another in a fully automatic manner to a higher degree than what I can achieve manually. I am not referring to integrating them to the mains, I am only looking to integrate the two subs to together to form one unit that I can later integrate into the whole system using the Arcam AVR.

Many thanks

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 11 months 5 days ago #58337

  • Ultrasonic
  • Ultrasonic's Avatar
  • Away
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2323
  • Thank you received: 479
I don't think so. You'd need a 2x4 HD rather than a 2x4 to be able to upgrade to DDRC-24 but even then the version of Dirac isn't suitable for subs only. 

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 11 months 5 days ago #58338

  • bandyka
  • bandyka's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Thank you received: 9
Thanks, that's what I have the 2x4HD. Even if I have to include the mains for integration that's fine I just need to know if it can handle multiple subs as separate units and automatically integrate them with each other.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 11 months 5 days ago #58346

  • Ultrasonic
  • Ultrasonic's Avatar
  • Away
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2323
  • Thank you received: 479
No. 

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 10 months 1 day ago #59024

  • Dingle
  • Dingle's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 21
  • Thank you received: 2
Hi! Why can't the DDRC24 work with subwoofers only? That would be a nice arrangement as you could set up and (Dirac) equalize multiple woofers and then do a final Dirac equalization with a single output from a Dirac included processor. Couldn't the curtain be set low enough so that each output would be corrected below 200hz or the like? Thanks!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 10 months 1 day ago #59025

  • Dingle
  • Dingle's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 21
  • Thank you received: 2
What are they doing in this instructional? I am easily confused :)   www.minidsp.com/applications/subwoofer-t...WdOgAXfSklnElXE6INN0
 
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ultrasonic

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 10 months 1 day ago #59028

  • Ultrasonic
  • Ultrasonic's Avatar
  • Away
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2323
  • Thank you received: 479

What are they doing in this instructional? I am easily confused :)   www.minidsp.com/applications/subwoofer-t...WdOgAXfSklnElXE6INN0

 

Interesting  . I have a feeling a change has been made to Dirac Live that I missed, as I'm sure I'd previously been told here that it was impossible for Dirac to run without a high-frequency signal from one speaker. That link definitely makes it look like it's possible now though!

Bear in mind that if there are multiple subwoofers then Dirac doesn't have the capability to optimise the delays between each to optimally blend them together.  

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 10 months 1 day ago #59030

  • bandyka
  • bandyka's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Thank you received: 9
This is why I asked the question in the first place ;)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 10 months 1 day ago #59032

  • Dingle
  • Dingle's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 21
  • Thank you received: 2
There isn't any reference to optimizing delays independently in the linked instructional though? it just indicates to run Dirac Live as noted in the instructions.  The Dirac would time each subwoofer independently when measuring the first position as I understand it anyway. So that the arrival times of all the subwoofers  to the first measurement position would be corrected to be the same. Is that not the case? I know when I used the  DDRC24 with two subwoofers set up  to be the bottom end (separate cabinets and amps) of a two way loudspeaker(stereo pair) it seemed to work great. This doesn't seem much different then that although both Dirac 1 and 2 are used as one in this application. Thanks to this easily confused fan. 

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Dingle.

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 10 months 21 hours ago #59038

  • Ultrasonic
  • Ultrasonic's Avatar
  • Away
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2323
  • Thank you received: 479
The method in the link has all subs playing at once, so it can't be checking anything independently I'm afraid.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 9 months 2 weeks ago #59383

  • asx77
  • asx77's Avatar
  • Away
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 614
  • Thank you received: 108
Hi. Don't use Dirac to integrate multiple subs. Use Multi-Sub Optimiser (MSO). It will give better results and it will sort out all the delays but won't set them to what you think it should! Takes a lot of measurements up front but well worth it. 
Warning: Just because I'm a 'Platinum' member, doesn't mean I know what I'm talking about... It just means I've asked too many questions!!
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ultrasonic, bandyka

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by asx77.

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 9 months 1 week ago #59596

  • CarlosdelJunco
  • CarlosdelJunco's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 62
  • Thank you received: 4
Hi Ultrasonic or anyone else with experience,  :-)

I just got a second sub (to run in stereo left and right sub) and also looking to integrate the two subs as one unified unit before taking Dirac Live measurements along with the stereo satellite speakers.

 I'm using an SHD on Mac (OS Monterey 12.2.1) platform, so unable to take advantage of the Windows Multi-Sub Optimizer. I'd seen a video on Youtube (apologies, I'm unable to share URL links, for some reason as my posts then get blocked as spam in this forum) to help properly align subs together called:"Sub Alignment with REW's "Alignment Tool" " ...so you can easily look it up for yourselves. 

So, before doing Dirac Live measurements, any suggestions on how to integrate this predicted REW "Alignment Tool" measurement (of up to 4 subs) into mindsp plug into SHD would be greatly appreciated. :-)  I'm guessing it's not that different than using DDRC24 software plugin. 

What is not clear is what I do with the properly aligned sub measurement (using the "alignment tool" in the Controls panel of REW) once I've got them blended. IE, my reading showed a 4.08ms delay of the right sub to the left to achieve optimal positive summation between the two subs - how does this get integrated into the minidsp plug in software?

To be clear, normally with one sub (and two satellite speakers), one simply uses the REW "acoustic timing reference" when doing measurement sweeps, to calculate the correct delay and enters that into resulting value into the two satellites on the minidsp software before doing Dirac Live measurements. 

I did this as well (after having done the "alignment tool" measurement of the two subs), essentially treating my two subs as one unit since they were pretty much equal distance directly behind the mains. It was 2.71ms. But what I'm trying to share here, is it's not at all clear what one is supposed to with the 4.08ms delay reading between the right and left sub I'd done earlier...  

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 9 months 1 week ago #59597

  • bandyka
  • bandyka's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Thank you received: 9
If I understand you correctly you are asking what to do with the 4.08ms delacy the multi sub calculation sput out? If so that should go in to the MiniDSP as the distance/delay between the two subs. You simply input that manually in the MiniDSP as delay.
The following user(s) said Thank You: CarlosdelJunco

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by bandyka.

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 9 months 1 week ago #59601

  • CarlosdelJunco
  • CarlosdelJunco's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 62
  • Thank you received: 4
Thanks bandyka for your reply.

Without totally understanding how to properly integrate the 2 subs into one reading - AND how that then integrates with the acoustic timing reference needed between the satellites and the "summed sub", somehow intuitively this does not make sense what you said. I apologize  for my lack of knowledge and perhaps doubting what you say. Are you absolutely certain that's what i need to do? Can you point me to an article or video that shows this on the minidsp site?

If this is correct way of doing things, if the right sub shows 4.08ms delay (as optimal integration reading with left sub using Controls: REW alignment tool), would I enter the 4.08ms positive value into the minidsp right subwoofer channel?
 

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2x4 to upgrade to DDRC24 to Dirac multiple subs only? 9 months 1 week ago #59602

  • rbachl
  • rbachl's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 17
  • Thank you received: 11
If the right subwoofer is delayed by 4.08 ms with respect to the left subwoofer,
then you have to delay the left subwoofer with the miniDSP device by the same amount,
so that finally the two subwoofers are time aligned.
The following user(s) said Thank You: CarlosdelJunco

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Moderators: devteam