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Dirac DDRC-88A + mini DSP 2X4HD upgrade to DDRC-24 1 month 3 weeks ago #57851

  • samana
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Hi I currently have the following setup:

Klipsch RP-600M (x4)
Klipsch RP-504C
Klipsch RP-500SA (x4)
Subwoofer: SVS SB 300 (X2)
Receiver: Yamaha RX-A6A
Center channel amp: Rotel RMB-100
rest of speakers amp: Rotel RKB-8100
mini dsp 2x4hd (x2)
DDRC-88A
Mic: UMIK-1

I currently calibrated the subs with mini dsp 2x4hd, I ordered a DDRC-88A + another mini dsp 2x4hd, I have no problem upgrading both mini dsp 2x4hd to DDRC-24, what setup is recommended to use all 9 speakers and both subs? is it possible to daisy chain?

I was thinking since the mini dsp 2x4hd is 96khz and the DDRC-88A is up to 48khz, maybe connect the subs to the DDRC-88A and use the mini dsp with the front stage (two Klipsch RP-600M  and the RP-504C center channel) and the rest of the speakers with the DDRC-88A. Is this the way to go?

 

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Dirac DDRC-88A + mini DSP 2X4HD upgrade to DDRC-24 1 month 3 weeks ago #57878

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I have a similar setup.

DDRC-88A
DDRC-24
2x4HD
With a 5.3.4 speaker setup. AVR is a Yamaha 3050.

The 2x4HD will change from 96k to 48k if you add the Dirac licence, I did that to my original one and was confused why my REW & MSO filters didn't work properly. Doh!

Originally I had the DDRC-24 driving center and subs, so I could use the three DSP outs for my three subs and the 88A driving all the other 8 channels. I ran into problems getting the lfe/subs channel to play nicely with the higher output needed for lfe and wanted to use the crossovers in the 88A, the Yamaha ones are not so clever.

If you have lfe on the 88a and set the speaker type to subwoofer this problem goes away.

I found that S/N is better on the 88A channels 3-8 than the DDRC-24, the 88A channels 1&2 are not as good as the DDRC-24. So I moved Left & Right to 7&8 instead of the default 1&2, I put Top Rear Left and Right on 1&2.

Last week I got another 2x4HD as well so now I have this channel layout and it's all working nicely.

DDRC-24  SL SR (note the -24 needs signals to be inverted to match the -88A)
DDRC-88A TRL,TRR, LFE,CTR, TFL,TFR, L,R
2x4HD LFE(&BM) from the 88A to three subs.

My tips.

I put all tops channels on the -88A because then I can use the router to measure the tops channels from the AVR.

I put Surrounds on the -24 because it's easier to measure the relative delays between the -88A and the -24 from REW and from the AVR.

In case it's useful, I have ended up with 20ms delay on the 2x4HD so I can reduce this if I need -delay. Dirac put lfe at 0ms and everything else >20ms. I put 15m distance on all the channels in the AVR to get everything aligned and on the ddrc-24 I needed 24.06ms delay to make everything perfectly timed. Delay through the ddrc-24 is different to the ddrc-88a.

AVR all speakers set to large except SL SR.

Austin Jerry and Keith Barnes guides (from avsforum) to setting up two 88a's is invaluable, it works just the same with an -88A and a -24, actually it's easier because the plugins don't argue with each other. Just make sure to only plug one USB in at a time otherwise, the previous plugin is still partly active. 
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Dirac DDRC-88A + mini DSP 2X4HD upgrade to DDRC-24 1 month 2 weeks ago #58033

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Thanks for the info!

My receiver has two LFE channels where I had previously configured the subs distance, should I continue using both LFE and connect to the DDRC-88A or just one LFE to the DDRC-88A and then output to another 2x4hd?


basically what I am understanding from what you wrote is my best bet is the following setup:

Option #1, AVR all speakers set to large:

DDRC-88A: 
Position 1: LFE Subwoofer 1
Position 2: LFE Subwoofer 2
Position 3: Front right speaker
Position 4: Center speaker
Position 5: Front left speaker
Position 6: Back left speaker
Position 7: Back right speaker 
Position 8: ​​​​​​​empty

DDRC-24 #1:
Position 1: Top Front left​​​​​​​
Position 2: Top Front right​​​​​​​

DDRC-24 #2:
Position 1: Top Back left​​​​​​​
Position 2: Top Back right​​​​​​​

OR only upgrade one 2x4hd to a ddrc-24 and setup like this:

Option #2 AVR all speakers set to large:

DDRC-88A: 
Position 1: LFE Subwoofer 
Position 2:  Top Front left​​​​​​​
Position 3: Front right speaker
Position 4: Center speaker
Position 5: Front left speaker
Position 6: Back left speaker
Position 7: Back right speaker ​​​​​​​
Position 8: ​​​​​​​Top Front right​​​​​​​

DDRC-24 #1:
Position 1:  Top Back left​​​​​​​
Position 2: Top Back right​​​​​​​

2x4HD connected to LFE on DDRC-88A:
Position 1: Subwoofer #1
Position 2: ​​​​​​​Subwoofer #2

Can you elaborate when you say "DDRC-24  SL SR (note the -24 needs signals to be inverted to match the -88A)" can you explain how to do this?

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Dirac DDRC-88A + mini DSP 2X4HD upgrade to DDRC-24 1 month 2 weeks ago #58042

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I think it's a waste to use two channels of the 88A for LFE, it's only with DLBC that Dirac does good things with separate subs.

So I would stick with your Option#2, I think this should give better results.

I have organised my channels differently but I guess it doesn't matter as long as it makes sense to you. You will somehow have to find a way to match the timing between the ddrc-88a and ddrc-24. In the Keith Barnes and Austin Jerry guides they use the AVR or processor's auto setup to measure single point and detect the correct distances. This works, I did it that way at first but I found it better to put discrete channels on the ddrc-24 so I could measure them in REW and line them up that way. I found the ddrc-24 took 4.06ms less time to process than the ddrc-88a so I put that delay in the outputs of the ddrc-24.

When I did the REW impulse comparison to do the timing for the ddrc-24, I noted that the impulses where upside down compared to the 88a, so I used the invert button on the outputs and then the impulses were the same way around.

 

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Dirac DDRC-88A + mini DSP 2X4HD upgrade to DDRC-24 1 month 2 weeks ago #58045

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If I go with option #2 how do I connect the LFE channels from the receiver to the DDRC-88A?

connect with a "Y" cable LFE#1 and LFE#2 on the receiver to one LFE on the DDRC-88A or use only one LFE connection?

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Dirac DDRC-88A + mini DSP 2X4HD upgrade to DDRC-24 1 month 2 weeks ago #58058

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LFE is just one signal, like Left or Right, it doesn't matter about the second lfe/sub output on the AVR, you don't need it because you will connect the subs to the 2x4hd. The minidsp will do the timing and EQ for the two subs not the AVR. The 2x4hd will do timing and any sub specific eq, like if you use MSO (Multi Sub Optimiser) and then the ddrc-88a will do Dirac processing and timing relative to the other channels on top.

Did you look at the Austin Jerry guide, it's very detailed, lots of diagrams.

www.dropbox.com/s/5cqu5yazjhyxoxi/88A-BM...tup%20Guide.pdf?dl=1
And the minidsp 2x4hd for subs
www.dropbox.com/s/w7jmpozner6muzw/MiniDS...Latest%20Version.pdf

Also you will get a lot more help on AVS with this setup, it seems very quiet in here...

www.avsforum.com/threads/minidsp-ddrc-88...ve-in-a-box.1796473/

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Dirac DDRC-88A + mini DSP 2X4HD upgrade to DDRC-24 3 weeks 2 days ago #58394

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thanks, I followed the instructions and had to use the jumpers inside of ddrc88a to balance out the sound, I ended up upgrading the 2x4hd for the subs to ddrc24 but I found out the ddrc24 does not have "bass management" meaning Dirac sees the subs as left and right speakers, given this what do you think of the following setup:


current:
DDRC-88A: 
Position 1: Front left speaker 
Position 2:  Front right speaker 
Position 3: LFE Subwoofer 
Position 4: Center speaker
Position 5: Back left speaker
Position 6: Back right speaker 
Position 7: Top Front left
Position 8: Top Front right​​​​​​​

DDRC-24 #1:
Position 1:  Top Back left​​​​​​​
Position 2: Top Back right​​​​​​​

2x4HD connected to LFE on DDRC-88A:
Position 1: Subwoofer #1
Position 2: ​​​​​​​Subwoofer #2

setup to try:
DDRC-88A: 
Position 1: Front left speaker 
Position 2:  Front right speaker 
Position 3: LFE Subwoofer #1
Position 4: Center speaker
Position 5: Back left speaker
Position 6: Back right speaker ​​​​​​​
Position 7: LFE # Subwoofer #2
Position 8: ​​​​​​​

DDRC-24 #1:
Position 1:  Top Back left​​​​​​​
Position 2: Top Back right​​​​​​​

DDRC-24 #2:
Position 1:Top Front left
Position 2: ​​​​​​​Top Front right​​​​​​​


​​​​​​​This way basically I have all Atmos speakers on the ddrc24's and the subs in the ddrc88a where I can configure and tell the Dirac that they are subs vs the ddrc24 where it sees the subs as speakers.

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Dirac DDRC-88A + mini DSP 2X4HD upgrade to DDRC-24 2 weeks 5 days ago #58533

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Hi, yes I had to change the jumpers for 4v in my units too.

The ddrc-24 has to do crossovers on the output which I was never able to get to work properly due to the level difference between lfe and all the other channels coming from my AVR 85dB v 75dB.
As soon as I moved the lfe to the 88A that problem went away, I also saw in a posting here that the 88A handles the filters differently if you set the speaker to subwoofer, I certainly got better results and stopped having the 85dB v 75dB problem when I did that.


My only comments would be that it's difficult to do the timing for the ddrc-24 to the ddrc-88a, that's why I put all my atmos channels on my 88A so they were timed correctly and then I could time surround speakers with REW as there are HDMI channels for those but not for atmos. If you are happy using the AVR setup to do timing I guess it doesn't matter.

I wouldn't use channels 1&2 for left and right, those two channels are on a different ADC and have a poorer s/n ratio than all the other 6 channels, I put top rears on 1&2 as they were behind me.

If you put both subs on the 88A make sure you route them from only one Dirac channel to both sub outputs otherwise Dirac doesn't do a good job timing or eq for them. I'd keep as many channels on the 88A as you can as they are all done in one sweep and timing is guaranteed.

Anything I add from now will be historical and from memory, I sold my 88A and my 2x4HD this week, I have a Monolith HTP-1 now, I liked Dirac that much :-)

I'm keeping my ddrc-24 for my Dining room speakers but I haven't connected that up yet.

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