TOPIC:

Sooo...bear with me.

I have a nad with Dirac and as an experiment I hooked up my 2.1 system with the nad as a preamp and ran Dirac, and I loved how well it integrates my subwoofer.

So I got excited and after some research and decided to buy a ddrc24 to add to my stereo system pretty much exclusively for subwoofer integration.

As I wait for the ddrc24 to arrive I've been reading and reading on configuration and I see mention that the ddrc24 only runs a stereo version of Dirac. I didn't even know there were different versions. So I take it ddrc will see my sub as simply an extension of the speakers. I don't really understand how that could possibly give me the same benefits for subwoofer integration. I don't even understand how it could understand why the bass is stronger on the right due to my subwoofer being located on the right. Won't this mess up all time alignment since it doesn't know why the bass is heavier on that side and will compensate the speaker, not the sub.

1. Am I correct on this, that Dirac will essentially not be doing any separate sub integration?

2. Is there a way around this? Can I buy a Dirac upgrade and use that or is it hardware limited?

3. If I ran Dirac using my nad with multichannel Dirac, could I load that curve onto the minidsp and have it recognize the sub, then? I have a saved Dirac project I like, maybe I can bypass the lack of sub integration in the stereo version...

As you can tell I'm new to room correction and thinking about my system within this context. Feeling a little disappointed that even bought the ddrc24, I did do my research but it's certainly not obvious in various setup instructions, manuals etc...that you're not really using Dirac for subwoofer integration.

You have all the functionality you need but have to do more of the work yourself rather than it being automated. You'll need to make measurements with REW to decide what time delays need to be applied, to either main speakers or subwoofer depending which is closer. You'll also need to decide what crossover type and frequency to use, which if you couldn't do before will be improved capability for you.

Once you have the delays and crossover filters sorted then, as you said, you run Dirac with it 'seeing' your sub and main speakers as two full-range speakers.

That's what I was concerned about. Is Dirac going to really be doing anything with sub integration with my mains at that point? The whole reason I bought it was to run Dirac for subwoofer integration but it doesn't do that, it's a workaround not a proper solution.

My sub isn't part of my mains...

I'm sorry but I read the below statement and it's pretty strongly suggesting I'll be using Dirac live for subwoofer integration but that's not true. Telling Dirac my subwoofer is actually my main speaker can't possibly be the intended use of Dirac.

Seems to me I spent $650 cdn for a high pass filter and a muddled Dirac "workaround".

I certainly may be missing something, I'm not claiming I understand how this all works. But I did read fully and do research and when I see a statement like the one below I was led to believe I was getting a device capable of using Dirac live as intended, not buying the capability of tricking Dirac live into working by learning a different piece of software.

I hate to go off when I'm not even sure I'm right, but it sure seems to be the case and I'm pretty annoyed. I 100% would not have bought this product if they were upfront about not actually having multichannel Dirac capability. If I'm right the below statement isn't just unclear, it's deliberately misleading.

If there's something I'm misunderstanding call me an ahole (I would deserve it).

Subwoofer Integration with the DDRC-24

The miniDSP DDRC-24 includes not only Dirac Live® but also a full set of crossover functions on its four output channels. One use of this is as a flexible tool for integrating subwoofers into your system along with Dirac Live.

Superchunk wrote:

Is Dirac going to really be doing anything with sub integration with my mains at that point?

What Dirac Live will do is help smooth/shape the combined frequency response of your subwoofer plus main speakers to match the desired target curve that you set. It will also make some small phase adjustments to improve the impulse response. What it won't do is the things I mentioned above: set the crossover filters or optimise time delays.

As for the rest of your post I think you've missed the main point of Dirac Live which is nothing to do with subwoofers. Most people who use the 2-channel version of Dirac probably don't even have subwoofers. I'm not familiar with Dirac on AVRs but even there I'm not sure that sub-integration isn't a relatively recent addition to the core product, in the form of the new Dirac Live Bass Control capability?

Superchunk wrote:

Subwoofer Integration with the DDRC-24

The miniDSP DDRC-24 includes not only Dirac Live® but also a full set of crossover functions on its four output channels. One use of this is as a flexible tool for integrating subwoofers into your system along with Dirac Live.

^Is this part something you are quoting from somewhere on the miniDSP website? If you read it again I think you'll see it says nothing about using Dirac Live for subwoofer integration, but rather that it has Dirac Live capability in addition to the functionality to integrate subwoofers.

For info. the key reason I own my miniDSP SHD is because of its powerful functionality for subwoofer integration, and before this I used a 2x4 HD to achieve the same. I appreciate that it seems you were expecting an automated solution but these capabilities are still there.

If a DDRC-24 is definitely the right product for you though then you should contact whoever you ordered it from to discuss a refund.

For some reason the forum is refusing to let me edit my post above. In the last sentence I obviously meant to say if a DDRC-24 'definitely isn't' for you to investigate getting a refund.

Thanks for your measured response.

Its an item with no returns so I may as well try it out. Dirac is designed for any speaker hooked up, and is often used for its ability to blend subwoofers well.and to shape a subwoofers interaction with a room. My goal was to find a product to allow me to use Dirac perhaps only on my subwoofer, perhaps on both my mains and sub.

There is only one Dirac version for home use. Dirac for studio has a stereo and multichannel version. Nowhere in the description of the ddrc24 does it say you're getting their special version of Dirac that is less full featured. In fact, in their note on subwoofer integration it meantions Dirac several times even though there essentially is no Dirac subwoofer support with this device.

Considering there is only one version of Dirac for home, which is multichannel, and nowhere do they state that's not what you're getting, and they tout Dirac live as part of subwoofer integration...yeah...feels like some BS.

Literally everything in their description would lead one to believe it has Dirac support for subwoofers. It has the channels. It has software that in every other instance will Work with multichannel. And nowhere to they explain that you're getting a special stripped down version of the software. I mean...Dirac live has 3 versions. The home use version is multichannel. One would easily believe they were getting the usual home version of Dirac as with other products that come with Dirac.

All they have to do is give an accurate and honest description of their product. I would have bought the 88 version but I sure as hell won't after wasting money on the 24.

I guess I'll see how it works without shaping the subwoofer as a separate entity.

I'm still trying to figure out if you can upgrade Dirac for use on the ddrc, since I already have a license for Dirac multichannel.

Superchunk wrote:

Literally everything in their description would lead one to believe it has Dirac support for subwoofers. It has the channels.

...

I'm still trying to figure out if you can upgrade Dirac for use on the ddrc, since I already have a license for Dirac multichannel.

You should contact miniDSP support regarding your complaints about the advertising.

I will though just respond to the points above as you're misunderstanding an important aspect I'm afraid. There are not enough channels and so it will not be possible to somehow upgrade. The DDRC-24 has two input channels, one of which will be for the left audio channel and the other for the right. You would need a third independent input channel for a subwoofer signal for it to work as it would in a multichannel system.

Superchunk wrote:

I guess I'll see how it works without shaping the subwoofer as a separate entity.

You can 'shape' the subwoofer response on it's own using the PEQ functionality of the plugin if you wish. You could used REW to make the required measurements and to design the filters.

You claim to have done research prior to purchasing but even a cursory review of the documentation would indicate the DDRC-24 is a stereo Dirac device.







That being said even multichannel Dirac really does nothing regarding sub integration (i.e setting crossover points between mains and subs). Maybe DLBC has this capability but very few products have it at this point.

Michael

@Superchunk. Thank you for this thread. I was hoping to do exactly the same that you want: using ddrc-24 to EQ with Dirac my front left, front right and my one sub. I wanted to EQ with Dirac 3 channels and used the bass management of my receiver for crossover and delay.It appears to be impossible or only if I buy the DDRC-88 with DLBM (and bypass the bass management of my receiver) which I can't afford in CAN$!

Yeah, despite what the guy above thinks, most people don't read the entire user manual before buying and it's definitely not clear that you can't do this in the ddrc24.

And most certainly Dirac helps with subwoofer integration. There's more to what Dirac does than setting crossovers, and knowing that you have a sub, and where it is and how it behaves vs your speakers is undoubtedly part of making Dirac work effectively.

I'm still going to try it out. I don't know 100% it won't work great, and I can compare against multichannel Dirac for subwoofer integration. If I'm wrong and ddrc24 works just as well I'll let you know.

Superchunk wrote:

Yeah, despite what the guy above thinks, most people don't read the entire user manual before buying and it's definitely not clear that you can't do this in the ddrc24.

And most certainly Dirac helps with subwoofer integration. There's more to what Dirac does than setting crossovers, and knowing that you have a sub, and where it is and how it behaves vs your speakers is undoubtedly part of making Dirac work effectively.

I'm still going to try it out. I don't know 100% it won't work great, and I can compare against multichannel Dirac for subwoofer integration. If I'm wrong and ddrc24 works just as well I'll let you know.

Oh it would be greatly apprciated because if DDRC-24 can EQ with Dirac two front channels and the sub xo80 for instance I would be interested.

And may I add to @devteam attention that it is not all of us savvy amateur who need all bells and wistles of a "full-patch-pre/pro-atmos-100-channels-hdmi5.9-device" ! 2.1 system with DLBC for instance

Superchunk wrote:

I'm still going to try it out. I don't know 100% it won't work great, and I can compare against multichannel Dirac for subwoofer integration. If I'm wrong and ddrc24 works just as well I'll let you know.

What are you going to 'try out'? If you do what I said in my first post of this thread the results should be excellent. I have done exactly this with my SHD, as I'm sure many have with DDCR-24s.

RenPa wrote:

Oh it would be greatly apprciated because if DDRC-24 can EQ with Dirac two front channels and the sub xo80 for instance I would be interested.

Well it can do more than EQ. As others have said you just need to choose your own crossover and set the delays. I use the DDRC24 with mains and sub as do, no doubt, half the other owners. It works and works well.

Superchunk wrote:

most people don't read the entire user manual before buying

Those that do, know what they’re buying, those that don’t, take their chances.

But aside from that, the DDRC24 can do what you want. It just needs a little set up from you first.

I think I’ve seen somewhere on the MiniDSP website a guide on how to set up a 2.1 with miniDSP. Search here or on google. It should help you out.

Edit: I’ve done that search for you!!
www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-cro...gration-with-minidsp

Edit2: also found this to help you with your time delays. www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-me...ts/292-rew-timing-ht