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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #42948

  • TimoJ
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I also wish there is a offline mode where we can play with the curves and even optimize it and then save the project for uploading into the 8x12dl later.

There is an offline mode. You can do all that offline with a PC connected to internet. Just load your project and press Cancel in the dialog instead of OK. (I have reported this reversed dialog bug to MiniDSP)

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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #42949

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ah... the cancel instead of ok... that works!

thanks! They could indicate that trick in the manual or just have a official offline mode!

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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #42951

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But the auto curve mode is a little too bright for my taste and not bassy enough in the low end and generally just a little too cold/lean.


Having been listening to the auto curve for a few days now, I fully agree on it being a little too bright. Some types of music are fine, but on others it's in need of dialing things back a little and then upping the low end. I am going to try a custom curve later this week.


I also wish there is a offline mode where we can play with the curves and even optimize it and then save the project for uploading into the 8x12dl later.

I also continue to run into clipping issue on the sub. and it does not even sound loud when that happens. So I basically ensure the gain is such that all channels are around the middle or -12 green bar range. But in some of the 9 mic positions, the sub would show clipping. I then have to go back to the previous screen and drop the sub gain by say 6db and remeasure. Then move on to the next position but change the sub gain back up to normal. repeat and rinse. another new position later would clip while some are ok. Not sure if this contributed to my bass light tune issue. Why is this happening? Is the range required by Dirac just to limited? The app can really be frustrating sometimes.


I run into this problem all the time as well, it drives me crazy. In some positions due I can get a speaker to clip, lowering the output then causes it to be too low in a different position. Usually when I am taking measurements, getting the output levels correct takes me more time than anything else due to having to constantly go back and forward in the screens trying to get one to work for all.

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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #42954

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There is a unofficial offline mode that someone showed me earlier.

Load the project file, and on the 2nd screen instead of clicking ok, click on cancel. Then you can play with the filters etc etc and Optimize them and even save them.

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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #42960

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While I have my first ok tune by using a per driver per dirac channel for a total of 7 Dirac channel tune, I took the advice of the support guys from MiniDSP that Dirac can and will be able to help with timing and crossover integration with multiple drivers within a single Dirac driver with their wizardry.

So I did a 4 way set up with all left tweeter/mid/lower bass/sub in one Dirac Channel and the Right in the other using only 2 Dirac channel. And I have to say, I was blown away. The blend is even better then my initial 7 dirac channel tune and it was so much easier to specify a house curve. I did 2 one base on JBL and the other MP1. It just amazing. While I think my previous APL tune using these house curve may have slightly better control in the Low Bass region, the Dirac tune blows it away in the mids and highs. Everything is just so clear. Soundstaging is much better.

E.g. 1 - The stereophile LEDR which plays a tone which is suppose to move from the speaker level and up. And then move it over from left ti right and vice versa. This is the absolute best I have heard. Steady movement up and over and back. Beats what I have even heard in my dedicated HT room with much more expensive equipment/speakers and room treatment but no Dirac, just Audyssey Pro. And this is in a car!!!! Not sure how that can happen.

E.g. 2 - Audiofrog 5 position soundstage test Left, Left Center, Center, Right Center, Right for 3 different tones. Pink Noise, Piano, and Bass guitar. All 5 position sound exactly the same. Ok the on closes to me sounds just a little warm or leaner then the other 4 positions. But they are all located at the exact location without moving when the piano/guitar chords is being played.

E.g. 3 - Madonna's "Like a prayer" from her The Immaculate Collection. I almost forgotten that there was sound thing they tried in this album called Q Sound. They threw some sound effects that was suppose to come from before you and I heard it for the first time after this Dirac tune! And this song is one of my test songs and I never ever heard it before in my car ever.

Basically, vocals, bass, soundstaging is just outstanding. Its now a matter of just getting the right house curve employed and I think I really cannot complain. I hope that I can get the 2.0 version to see that improved phase thing they talked about.

Just outstandingly amazing. :laugh:

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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #42962

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While I have my first ok tune by using a per driver per dirac channel for a total of 7 Dirac channel tune, I took the advice of the support guys from MiniDSP that Dirac can and will be able to help with timing and crossover integration with multiple drivers within a single Dirac driver with their wizardry.

So I did a 4 way set up with all left tweeter/mid/lower bass/sub in one Dirac Channel and the Right in the other using only 2 Dirac channel. And I have to say, I was blown away. The blend is even better then my initial 7 dirac channel tune and it was so much easier to specify a house curve. I did 2 one base on JBL and the other MP1. It just amazing. While I think my previous APL tune using these house curve may have slightly better control in the Low Bass region, the Dirac tune blows it away in the mids and highs. Everything is just so clear. Soundstaging is much better.

E.g. 1 - The stereophile LEDR which plays a tone which is suppose to move from the speaker level and up. And then move it over from left ti right and vice versa. This is the absolute best I have heard. Steady movement up and over and back. Beats what I have even heard in my dedicated HT room with much more expensive equipment/speakers and room treatment but no Dirac, just Audyssey Pro. And this is in a car!!!! Not sure how that can happen.

E.g. 2 - Audiofrog 5 position soundstage test Left, Left Center, Center, Right Center, Right for 3 different tones. Pink Noise, Piano, and Bass guitar. All 5 position sound exactly the same. Ok the on closes to me sounds just a little warm or leaner then the other 4 positions. But they are all located at the exact location without moving when the piano/guitar chords is being played.

E.g. 3 - Madonna's "Like a prayer" from her The Immaculate Collection. I almost forgotten that there was sound thing they tried in this album called Q Sound. They threw some sound effects that was suppose to come from before you and I heard it for the first time after this Dirac tune! And this song is one of my test songs and I never ever heard it before in my car ever.

Basically, vocals, bass, soundstaging is just outstanding. Its now a matter of just getting the right house curve employed and I think I really cannot complain. I hope that I can get the 2.0 version to see that improved phase thing they talked about.

Just outstandingly amazing. :laugh:


Thanks for sharing this.

From your description above I assume you did not utilize the "Bass Management" feature?

Also, did you perform any pre-Dirac measurement corrections: driver level matching or output tab EQ using REW to get the acoustic xovers lined up?

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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #42994

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Hello,

I just got the DL firmware installed and activated on my minidsp. So I was thinking of how to proceed with the setup. Do I setup each Dirac channel to each driver Or do I setup a Dirac channel for left and right side driver combos? Also do I setup a bass management channel of Dirac in both of these cases?

My setup is a active 3way at the front and a sub in the trunk.

If I have to use a Dirac channel for a group of drivers I.E. left and right sides, do I need to delay and peq the drivers ?

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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #42997

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Hello,

I just got the DL firmware installed and activated on my minidsp. So I was thinking of how to proceed with the setup. Do I setup each Dirac channel to each driver Or do I setup a Dirac channel for left and right side driver combos? Also do I setup a bass management channel of Dirac in both of these cases?

My setup is a active 3way at the front and a sub in the trunk.

If I have to use a Dirac channel for a group of drivers I.E. left and right sides, do I need to delay and peq the drivers ?


I think most of us are still trying determine the most efficient method of utilizing the features of this unit while achieving the best results. The manual has an example of 3way + sub in which is uses a Dirac channel for Left, Right, & Sub. Some have tried this method with positive results where only the xovers were set and Dirac handled delay & eq automatically. Some have tried the Dirac per driver with mixed results. This method will require individual driver target curves. So basically, choose one and try it and let us know how it turns out.

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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #43011

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Hey Devs, would it at all be possible to program an internal loop back of Dirac so we could correct(via Dirac) a set of midbass, a set of midrange, and a set of tweets and then loop it back in the software matrix so we could correct it as a Left and Right side? It has the power, just hasn't been programmed in. I'd be VERY greatful.

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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #43012

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Hey Devs, would it at all be possible to program an internal loop back of Dirac so we could correct(via Dirac) a set of midbass, a set of midrange, and a set of tweets and then loop it back in the software matrix so we could correct it as a Left and Right side? It has the power, just hasn't been programmed in. I'd be VERY greatful.



Put a ddrc upstream and call it a day

.02c

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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #43018

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Software update with hardware i already have, or another$400...
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #43019

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I have to agree, Dirac v1.0 seems "almost but not quite complete" for the C-DSP. It needs to handle L/R interaction, which I recognize is handled by Dirac 2.0. Hopefully an update will be forthcoming after it shows up for the DDRC88. Seems the C-DSP really needs this.
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #43020

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The manual says something about not trying to loopback from the output to the input.
If you think about it it could never work anyway because you can’t do 2 instances of Dirac simultaneously so that will never work
It can never be a future upgrade either.

If you wanted a 2ch Dirac over a 8ch Dirac , I would suggest a completely different approach

I would use a openda8 or some 2x4hds and create fir based crossovers and than have a 2ch Dirac in front of it.


As far as the comb-filters go, only a unknown amount of comb-filtering is correctable.
If the system has compound reflections or comb-filtering is so severe where there’s several peaks and notches per octave, choosing a better speaker location would be the preferred way of solving that, the DL2.0 I’m going to dare to guess
Isn’t going to make those issues that much better. If the impulse has 3 or 4 layers of reflected sound mixed with direct sound and all of them have different timing , and it depends if the reflection is heard in both ears at the same time or not. ;) it’s only going to be able to solve so much.

I just don’t want everyone’s hopes to be set too high on 2.0 being the answer to more severe issues that needs to be dealt with on the install level.

Hope that helps some

Andrew

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Last edit: by denver8me4dinner.

New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #43066

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Any response from the @devteam about the subwoofer level issues and other strange issues (like tweeter levels) that people are having with Dirac 1.0 in the C-DSP?

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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 years 6 months ago #43072

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Any response from the @devteam about the subwoofer level issues and other strange issues (like tweeter levels) that people are having with Dirac 1.0 in the C-DSP?



I’m not DevTeam, but this may help.


I’m starting to think it’s not a problem with the unit. And more a problem with the sub box and how the car pressurizes low frequency.

There’s a lot of cabin gain in a car, and that gain is very transparent and would be a room mode that would be in all seats.

A room mode that is present in all the seats could be “corrected” so I’m taking a guess that
Dirac is lowering it to the actual level of the subwoofers direct sound response.

I installed much smaller subwoofer s to test this theory and it proved positive that smaller subs reacted less with the room and the problem was eliminated.

I went from a 15” in a bandpass and a 15” sealed , I also tried 2-12”s ported and all exhibited the same behavior. As soon as I put my small “pro audio” midbass drivers that didn’t have a huge box and are capable to 16hz at moderate levels. It was placed so it wasn’t loading in the rear of the car and was put in the center of the car, so the room mode would shift to the boundary of the vehicle instead of in the passenger compartment.

Doing that solved the bass issue.


Your regular RTA will just show SPL so it won’t know there’s a mode present, maybe some more advanced room analysis in REW perhaps.
But this test did it for me , and was all the “proof” I needed it’s not the dsp or Dirac

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.
I’m just sayin.

Hope that helps

Andrew

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