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TOPIC: USBStreamer b on iPad 5 (2017, ios 10.33)

USBStreamer b on iPad 5 (2017, ios 10.33) 2 years 8 months ago #35431

  • freetomfr
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inforlk wrote:
patience? When I wrote you 2 times, you took 2 weeks to answer. You did not give me any solution, not even if you were going to fix it and now you say that apple is to blame? You do not try the High Sierra betas? You must indicate that it is not compatible with IOS 11, nor with High Sierra !!! you are cheating future buyers

He is right. We sended tones of e-mails to your support service but the only answer we had was "We don't know, check with apple". We don't want the problem to be solved in 2 minutes but only to have a real support, with answers, telling us that the miniDSP support service is on the problem and will give us a solution, etc...

Moreover, the first post was three month ago. You didn't have time to check this for three month?!

Please don't take your customers for fools.
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USBStreamer b on iPad 5 (2017, ios 10.33) 2 years 8 months ago #35451

  • devteam
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Dear all

In an effort to try to solve this problem, let's try to reiterate:
a) We're listening
b) We're trying to solve the issue
c) We "NEVER" considered our customers fools. It's a bit hurtful to make such comments to a team when we're trying to help and also not sure that a shouting/rude match is going to speed things up.. :-(

Now that everybody been spilling out of your chest your anger, let's try to be gentleman and follow a positive attitude?
a) We stated before that we were looking into it. Maybe it got missed, but let me try to say it again. "We're looking into it". :-)
b) IOS support isn't something we have by default/mentioned anywhere in our documents for datasheet/user manual and no tested by our team I'm afraid. That's the reason why we missed it. Over the years Apple has modified their USB audio stack many times (if any of you has firmware/software/hardware experience, you could maybe attest), when it happened on some beta/release, it was even solved afterward by apple. Sometimes, we can't check every single BETA release I'm afraid. (especially for IOS when we don't have a test in place). THanks for your understanding.
c) Apple did break something, we're "not" pushing the blame. We're stating a fact even if it's not always the magic pill everybody wants to hear.. :-) It's related to how clock management (slave/master) is handled. Unfortunately the USBtreamer is a tiny bit more than a standard USB interface with 10x10 + clocking. OSX is driverless for UAC2 but if something is changed on how it's handling UAC2, we don't want to break it for others... That is "NOT" something that takes 2min I'm afraid.. :-( We're now in talk with Apple and XMOS to figure out what was broken.

@ Tom (Freetomfr), you mentioned that you sent a "ton" of emails, that's quite a lot. ;-) Can you please contact us with your tech support ticket you used directly by creating a tech support ticket with us? We'd be happy to look into it! We could only find one tech support ticket under your current email address about a year ago so you most likely used another? Please contact our team directly. Thanks.

@ Pablo (inforlk), we did receive your email and did mentioned that we could see the issue end of December and that engineers were looking into it. During holiday break we just couldn't find the solution and noting the complexity of the problem exposed above, it's not something we've found a solution for now.

Hoping all the above clarifies. Feel free to contact us if you have further questions.

DevTeam
miniDSP, building a DSP community one board at a time.
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USBStreamer b on iPad 5 (2017, ios 10.33) 2 years 8 months ago #35453

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let's hope you find a solution for macOS High Sierra. Which is what I paid for. For now your card is unusable for updated Macs
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USBStreamer b on iPad 5 (2017, ios 10.33) 2 years 8 months ago #35465

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Dear DevTeam,
thanks for taking time clarifying the situation and reassuring us that you are already trying to solve the issue.
If you can succeed making your USBStremer B class compliant with iOs, you will have a unique selling point in the market for musicians who work with iPads.
In case you are looking for testers, I can propose my support (Ipad Pro with iOs 11.2.5, Windows 10 64-bits version 1709).
Best regards,
Darius
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USBStreamer b on iPad 5 (2017, ios 10.33) 2 years 8 months ago #35538

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Dear Dev Team,

I'm really angry because you don't answer on the forum and your answer to my mails was totally a jok. Here is a copy/paste of you answer :
APR 28, 2017 | 11:41AM HKT
Tech support team replied:
Hello Thomas

Unfortunately we’re not sure why you’d be having some issues as we don’t have an iphone7 to test.. We’re assuming that you’re using the exact same adaptor for both configurations?
We haven’t head of such issue before.. Maybe misconnection/misconfiguration with the camera kit dongle…

The miniSTREAMER doesn’t have any firmware (configuration stored into chipset). There isn’t much we can modify on this chipset I’m afraid.. :-(
Have you asked Apple support for the reason for this to happen? Worth asking..

Best Regards

DevTeam
MAY 02, 2017 | 10:11AM HKT
Tech support team replied:
Hello Thomas

Unfortunately we don’t have IoS 10.3 to test here.. :-(
We can see and inquire around if someone does have some way to test this configuration… I’d recommend that you also try to contact Apple for asking what could be the reason for 10.2 working, 10.3 not..
MiniSTreamer is a standard USB audio class 1 device, we’re unsure as to why it wouldn’t work.. :-(

Best Regards

DevTeam

Do you think it is an answer you can really give to a customer? Do you really think Apple care about your product compatibility with IOS? Do you think it is your customers job to ask this to Apple? It's you job guys! take your responsibilities! You have to check your products compatibilities! It really look you totally don't care about the problem. Please consider your customers!
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by freetomfr.
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USBStreamer b on iPad 5 (2017, ios 10.33) 2 years 8 months ago #35548

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Dear all

- Please have a look at the user downloads section for the USBStreamer new firmware. It solves the clock modification done by OSx latest version and that broke the firmware of USBStreamer. After much investigations we figured out what was modified and that broke the operation. It is tested on the latest High Sierra. IoS support isn't something we advertise by default on the interface however it's been known to work in the past fine until IoS also modified its clocking. The reason why it's tricky on IoS is that we're not aware of a software that allows configuration of the clocking mode from its app (i.e. clocked from external or internal). Maybe some of you know of such IoS app from the app store? In the past, before that IoS/OSx modification of how clock selection is handled, it wasn't an issue. Now that Apple modified its clocking behavior, one would have to modify the application to allow external clocking selection for multichannel hardware such as the USBStreamer. To some of you who have IoS, have trial.

@freetomtr,

It sounds like you're using another product? i.e. miniSTREAMER is completely different from USBStreamer I'm afraid. That statement we've made above is 100% correct though. We indeed have zero firmware support on the miniSTREAMER (locked firmware). unlike the USBStreamer we can't control/modify firmware to fix a potential change. We've never advertized IoS support either for the miniSTREAMER so a bit unfair to state that we're lying to customer here but maybe start a tech support ticket with our team? Would be a better method to communicate here than confusing the two. We fail to see how this back and forth match is going to solve your issue here... We've now asked few times for you to start a tech support ticket.... Not sure what else we can do here.

DevTeam
miniDSP, building a DSP community one board at a time.
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USBStreamer b on iPad 5 (2017, ios 10.33) 2 years 8 months ago #35557

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Yes it seems but it is the same way of using. It is really frustrating to hear you telling me that my problem with IOS can't be solved because there is no firmware update possible. It is not my problem! I want my product to work as it would do!

And also why do you want me to open a ticket. You and your support answer me that there is no solution. I Gonna open a ticket even if I don't really understand why... For me the only solution is a full refund.

But finally you didn't answer to my question. It is th main thing I blame you :

Do you think it is a good answer for a tech support to ask customer to call Apple to know why the USBStreamer doesn't work with an iphone? Do you really think it is a serious answer? Do you have Tim Cook phone number to allow us to call him?

I am very angry reading answer like this!
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USBStreamer b on iPad 5 (2017, ios 10.33) 2 years 8 months ago #35570

  • Darius
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Dear DevTeam, thanks for this update. I will install the new firmware on my Ipad Pro this week-end and test if USBSStreamer B will be detected correctly - and of course I will report here.

Regarding your point on "clock synchronisation" : I have had a contact last year with an App developper for Ipad about "external synchronisation". His app (for audio looping/recording) give sthe choice between internal and external synchroniation via MIDI clock. Is your USBStreamer using this technique? If yes I can give you the contact of the developper, as he had a problem with external clock synchronisation and was able to solve it. In case USBStreamer use another kind of clock synchronisation, please explain a bit more.

Another point: you are partly correct when you write " IoS support isn't something we advertise by default". In the specifications your also write "USB Audio Class 2 compliant" (manual, page 25). Please be aware that among musicians, a class compliant audio interface is seen as compatible with Ipads. RME has opened the way many years ago by giving musicians the possibility to boot their audio interface in "class compliant" mode, and this runs fantastic, even on the latest version of iOs. So, in order to prevent that potential customer might be disappointed when trying your product on their Ipad, I recommend that you put a warning on your product page to say that the compatibility with iOs is not garanteed.

Best regards,
Darius
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USBStreamer b on iPad 5 (2017, ios 10.33) 2 years 8 months ago #35571

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Dear DevTeam,
we are on the right track.

Ipad Pro with iOS 11.2.5
USBStreamer B with Firmware v6 B3 (beta)

Now when I connect the USBStreamer to the Ipad, it gets correctly recognized as a 8 trakcs audio interface : well done!
Additionnally my RME sound card is connected per ADAT to USBStreamer and gets properly synchronized @48 kHz (external sync to the ADAT signal coming from USBStreamer).
Unfortunately no sound comes out.
I guess that the problem is the clock synchronisation between USBStreamer and the iPAD. This setting is "internal" by default, and should probably be changed to "external" so that it can synchronise to the Ipad clock. I have no app capable of this on my Ipad.
So.... are we stuck?
Suggestion: create an option on the Windows/Mac Driver that enables to freeze the clock setting to "external", even after disconnecting the USBStreamer from the computer. What is your opinion?
Best regards from Germany,
Darius
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USBStreamer b on iPad 5 (2017, ios 10.33) 2 years 8 months ago #35576

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Dear all,

I am pleased to write that USBStreamer B with Firmware v6 (beta) does work on my Ipad Pro with latest iOS 11.2.5.
In my post yesterday I had written that no sound was coming out : this morning I simply just tried again and it does work. I cannot find the mistake which I probably did, but it does not matter now, because I plugged the USBStreamer in and out many times to check : it works.

For those of you who want to try from scratch:
1 ) FIRMWARE UPDATE
First you need to update your USBStreamer B with the latest firmware (V6 beta) released earlier this week by DevTeam. To do this you need a computer with windows or a macOS. The driver for your computer and the firmware can be downloaded from the "user downlad section" (you must be logged in to see it).
In my case I have a laptop with Windows 10-64 bits. I have first installed the driver using "miniDSP_UAC2_v4.11.0_2017-06-19_setup" in the folder WinDrivers . This has installed a Control Panel which I can open by clicking a white round icon in the system tray. The Control Panel enables you to control your device from Windows. I have checked the Firmware version and it was V5.
Then I have updated the firmware : I have opened the folder Firmware and looked for the application called "miniDSP_UAC2_DFU". There are several firmware files, you have the choice, depending if you want your USBStreamer to work as ADAT, Stereo, etc. I have chosen the Firmware for ADAT (in folder ADAT_I2S). In this folder you will see 2 different files which differ only by their ID number. This is because you can use 2 USBStreamer B on the same computer at the same time - as long as they get a different ID. In my case I have simply chosen the first file.
Finally I have checked the Firmware version using the Control Panel again : V6.

2) CONNECTION TO IPAD
My USBStreamer B is connected to my Ipad Pro using the "Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter" from Apple. This adapter has a USB input (for the USBStreamer) and a Lighning input (for the power adapter). You need to plug the power adapter so that the Ipad does not complain that USBStreamer B requires too much power and refuses to use it.
If you do not have the above Apple adapter, you can use a powered USB Hub. I have checked with a Sitecom USB Hub 7 Port (USB 2.0) : it works fine.
At this point the LED of your USBStreamer B should light up. On my Ipad, the music player appears automatically in the Dock and displays a small headphones icon. If I open the music player app, I can see "USBStreamer" as the selected device for audio output.
Using music apps like Cubasis, Quantiloop Pro, Group the Loop... I can see all 8 channels in input and output (or 4 if displayed as stereo pairs).

3) HEARING SOUND
What comes out of the USB Streamer B is ADAT signal. You need a DAC (Digital-Analog-Converter) to convert ADAT into audible signal. I use a RME Fireface UCX. I recommend that you connect BOTH optical cables between the 2 ADAT devices, I have read somewhere that it is important for synchronisation - not sure though if this is technically correct, I simply want my system to run stable.
Now the settings on my RME device : first the clock synchronisation is set to "external". Then the ADAT input channels (= signal coming from USB Streamer) are routed to my headphone output... and the magic happens : I can hear the sound played on the Ipad :-)
For recording purposes I have routed my analog signals (microphone , keyboard...) to the ADAT ouput channels (= signal going to USB Streamer).

A big thank to DevTeam for supporting their customers.
And now let us make music!
Darius
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by Darius.
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