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EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #54

  • DFO
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I can see you have only 2 graphic eq's. I would rather have 3 PEQ per channel or even better 4 PEQ per channel. I think 4 PEQ's per channel will cover 99% of eq needed. You can attenuate low end and high end, and remove two spikes.

A graphic eq. can normally not remove spikes because the standard Q will affect to broad a frequency spectrum.

When having at graphical view on the screen a PEQ is rather easy to use. PEQ is a strong tool because you can specify the frequency, the Q and whether it should be a center frequency or all above/below the selected frequency.

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Re: EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #55

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Great suggestions and good points raised.
While graphic EQ was easier at first for the UI, most of the code in the background was actually designed with Parametric Equalizer in mind.

Your suggestions of moving the equalization on a per channel makes complete sense to us. It however require a new plug-in to be able to perform these changes(v1 stereo and 4 way having a different dsp architecture). Currently there is a long wish-list from the community which make us wonder how we need to prioritize features(most wanted). Let me give you an example, a lot of people asked for a multi-way crossover (3/4 way). Once implemented, we haven't heard back from any of the people who actually asked for it.. :-) So in the end, understand that it is always difficult for us to know what we should prioritize in terms of features? What's really needed (i.e. will benefit the most the community) with what may just be an off-shoot idea.

Like any other engineering team, time is limited, so some features will go ahead while others will take more time. Maybe time for us to implement a voting system! :-)
This being said, I very much like your idea of PEQ and will look into building a plug-in for that kind of configuration. Will follow up as we're making progress.
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Re:EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #59

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Hello,

I second that, an PEQ would be really useful.
Also i´d rather have the EQ-ing at the outputs so i can influence the individual slopes of the bass and treble to match perfectly, an apply notchfilters only to the individual driver, as nessecary with a lot of metal-membrane bassdrivers.

Regards,
Daniel

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Re:EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #64

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A parametric equalizer option on the crossover plugin would add a lot of value, especially if it can be done on the individual output channels! That would allow you to use the MiniDSP to crossover, fix some room modes and implement a linkwitz trasfrom, all in one package! That would be a killer app :)

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Re:EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #69

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Hello all,

The good news: We've started to work on the Parametric Equalizer code and ironed out a lot of the issues. Part of the problem being to have a very responsive and good User Interface (UI) without overloading the uC with too many parameters. No point in rushing that step just to get a feature out at all cost. Better to let engineering process go their usual ways. So far only the Stereo crossover have started to be modified. Redesign of the 4 way crossover will be after that.

The Issues: As said earlier on, the DSP code from having a graphic EQ to having Parametrics on both inputs are completely different, so both UI, setting configuration and Firmware have to be completely different. It basically means that it will require a new plug-in and settings from the current stereo plug-in will not be transferable to the new plug-in (can easily be hand coded again in 5min though...)

The even better news: All current community members who already received the Stereo crossover will receive the new plug-in version as a FREE upgrade! A way for us to thank our early adopters who believed in us. No release date as we don't want to give anybody the impression that we ought to release it on a certain date (hence rushing our extensive QC). The day it's ready, you'll all get to enjoy this new feature which should help tuning of your system.

Let us know if you have any questions,

Regards
minDSP Dev Team
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Re:EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #70

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Sounds good. When this is done, and the spdif option is available, I will definately place an order.

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Re:EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #75

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Sounds like great news!

How many PEQs will be available per channel?

Will the PEQ be applied on the inputs or the outputs?

Will the new version also include selectable filter slopes?

Thanks!

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Re:EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #77

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admin wrote:

No release date as we don't want to give anybody the impression that we ought to release it on a certain date (hence rushing our extensive QC). The day it's ready, you'll all get to enjoy this new feature which should help tuning of your system.


Being a Softwaredeveloper myselv, I welcome this approach. More pressure doesn´t let you think faster - so this is the only way to quality Software.

Glad to hear about the free update!

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Re:EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #80

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Rundberg wrote:

Sounds like great news!

How many PEQs will be available per channel?

Will the PEQ be applied on the inputs or the outputs?

Will the new version also include selectable filter slopes?


In answers to your questions:
- There will be 6 PEQs per input channels + 6 PEQ per output channels. First plug-in to be released will be the 2way crossover, 4 way to follow after that release.

- As for the filter order, let's put that to the next revision. Some of the preliminary work has been done in the background, but not to the point of having a release ready. Adding filter order is actually quite a redesign of the current charting/bypassing/configuration in the code. It's not a simple matter of just cascading another biquad.... Safer to go step by step to keep things stable. Don't worry, this feature will be out soon! ;)

In the end, I'm actually quite interested in the type of system you guys are designing with higher order... In our 2 to 3 ways applications, we love Linkwitz Riley 4th order (24dB slope) because of its in-phase outputs and slope steep enough to properly roll off the signal to each speaker. It performs very well in transient, overshoot, on & off axis and phase response... It might be one of the most widely used crossover order and type in the pro Audio industry (our background) and that's the reason why it was included as a version that should do most crossovers. This being said, it seems like the DIY audio community has other needs since people seem to request this feature a lot, so let's open that discussion of higher order filters! :)

For information sake, anybody willing to pitch to explain the type of speakers you are working on? It'd be great info I think for everybody to hear your experience and how you'd intend to use the filter order feature and any other experience you may have with using 4th or 2nd order filters...
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Re:EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #83

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6 PEQs per output sounds like a great feature, it will allow for very flexible applications. :)

I also agree with complex, take your time and make it right, we will be waiting patiently...

Regarding the filters:

I agree that the LR 24/24 filter is a very good one, but it is not always the best one for a given implementation. If the acoustic roll off of the top is too close to the crossover point you will get a destructive phase relation from the combination of the electric and acoustic filter functions.

The reason, therefore, I would like to have selectable filter slopes is that way you can take the acoustical roll off of the top into consideration.

Say you have a closed box with a f3 of 80Hz, then the top will have an acoustical second-order function already built in, If you on top of that implement a 30/18 electric filter @ 80Hz you have a fifth order transfer function on both the top and the sub.

I think that such an implementation is also the THX norm, so there are professional applications with odd and non-symmetric electric filter functions.

Regards

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Re:EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #84

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Glad you're happy with the PEQ choice. We'll let you know when that's ready for release.

As for the filter order, your thinking makes sense... I think that multiple filter order will provide greater flexibility to the plug-in. A neat new feature that will hopefully help you all build some great speakers! :-)

Looking forward to the pics of your projects,

Tony
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Re:EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #86

Your fast response on the request for PEQ is great. If possible I would like to request that PEQ be available in both inputs and outputs of the crossover. With existing DSP solutions it is handy to address problems that lie in the crossover region via input PEQ and all other within the output PEQs for that band. Looking forward to delivery of my first board later this week.

Cheers,

Kevin

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Re:EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #88

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Yes Kevin, as mentioned earlier on, PEQ will be available on both each inputs and each outputs. (6 each).
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Re:EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #96

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Voila!

PEQ are finally happening, tested and fully working on our bench and few beta sites! Quite a bit of a rework of our User Interface to be able to provide real time modifications but it's finally ready for your eyes! B)

Check out our new YouTube video for a small sneak peek. Note that the drop down menu will turn into a radio button for quicker selection of one of the 6 PEQ.



Along with this release, we're trying to modify the way we're currently synchronizing, flashing our boards with a new set of settings. All this should be tested and ready to go sometime next week if all goes well...

Stay tuned!

miniDSP Dev Team
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Re:EQ - PEQ or graphic? 12 years 10 months ago #107

The new PEQ UI looks great and I'm very much looking forward to its' release. After seeing the implementation I have one other suggestion. Currently the 6 PEQs are all peak/dip (bell) curves. There are some applications where shelving EQs are really useful (in addition to bell) and it would be great if you could have a choice between those 2 types of EQ. Shelving is useful in 2 way designs where there is a slight droop in the bottom end that needs lifting and for home theater installs it is useful for screen loss compensation (for speakers behind a perf screen) and for cinema EQ (X-Curve). Maybe it could be added to the next release. Thanks for the great work!

Kevin

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