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4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17826

  • nyt
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If using the 4x10 plugin, then you are operating at 96khz sampling rate.

However, I think you might be confused on frequency range issues. The sampling rate will determine high-frequency roll-off performance, not low frequency.

If you're using this unit just to control subwoofers, then you're far under-utilizing its potential.

Dave.


Perhaps you should read through this thread. At 96khz, there are low frequency sampling issues which cause just about any filters below 30hz to behave erratically, getting worse as the frequency is lower. Running the 10x10 plugin runs the unit at 48khz, which supposedly lessens these issues.

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4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17827

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Yes, I'm well aware of the previous content of this thread. Please take another look at the operation of your unit with either of the two latest plugin's loaded and evaluate the low-frequency performance difference between them.

Dave.

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4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17828

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Yes, I'm well aware of the previous content of this thread. Please take another look at the operation of your unit with either of the two latest plugin's loaded and evaluate the low-frequency performance difference between them.

Dave.


I've yet to test the 10x10 plugin, but the 4x10 is still severely flawed. There hasn't been an update to these plugins since 2013.

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4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17829

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Sorry, I haven't visited this in quite a while.

Give me a relatively simple EQ setup where you think the output is flawed and I will perform a test on my unit with both plugins and we'll see what we see.

Your issue is that the operation is still incorrect, irregardless of which plugin in used?

Dave.

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Last edit: by dreite.

4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17830

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Sorry, I haven't visited this in quite a while.

Give me a relatively simple EQ setup where you think the output is flawed and I will perform a test on my unit with both plugins and we'll see what we see.

Your issue is that the operation is still incorrect, irregardless of which plugin in used?

Dave.


The first page of posts has some good examples. Attached are a bunch of measurements (REW) that clearly aren't behaving properly. This is with the 4x10 plugin. I've yet to test the 10x10 plugin since I've managed to get things close enough by plugging in random values for now.
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Last edit: by nyt.

4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17831

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Here's a test with a low-shelf activated, gain=2, Q=2, at 15Hz and 10Hz.
I'm getting roll-off at the bottom end of both measurements but that's because of interaction with my soundcard input resistance. They would both shelve up to 2db in a perfect testing setup.
This looks correct to me. Do you disagree?

Dave.
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4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17832

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Here's a test with a low-shelf activated, gain=2, Q=2, at 15Hz and 10Hz.
I'm getting roll-off at the bottom end of both measurements but that's because of interaction with my soundcard input resistance. They would both shelve up to 2db in a perfect testing setup.
This looks correct to me. Do you disagree?

Dave.


With which device? And which plugin? Try the following...

peak at 15hz, 1db, 5Q
peak at 15hz, 5db, 5Q

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4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17833

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I remember reading this thread years ago, but didn't re-read it until now. I didn't remember it being as contentious as it is. :)
Thanks for the prompt to reread. There are a few other threads with similar issues noted and perhaps I was thinking of one of those.

Anyways, sorry about that but, yes, I can observe the issue you're describing does still exist. The 48khz and 96khz plugins do behave differently but you can (somewhat) work around the inaccuracies of either via an iterative approach with the settings. (example below.) However, a person would need to have an accurate electronic testing scheme so as to properly monitor while adjusting. Most users don't have that facility, so it's probably better not to attempt these types of low-frequency peaks/EQ's unless you do.

When there's not a straightforward solution forthcoming, I tend to view these types of issues as challenges to find work-arounds. (I'm weird that way.) :)

Anyways, sorry to have derailed your thread.

Cheers,

Dave.
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4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17834

  • StewedNKeefed
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>If you're using this unit just to control subwoofers, then you're far under-utilizing its potential.

I acknowledge this. You need to understand I am interested in hifi in order to listen to music, not to play around with electronics that have misleading or confusing guides to them

Let's get back to marketing. You sell a product to overcome a problem. That's why people buy things.

My problem is 'need more bass to the standmounts'

miniDSP can solve this, while still allowing my valve amp, preamp and other hifi gear to operate to their full capability at 60Hz to 20,000 Hz (plus supertweeter)

I only want miniDSP to handle everything below 60Hz

I followed the advice on the site before selecting and making a purchase.

Now that I have bought and am looking at depth of detail in the forums, I find that the 4x10 plugin is probably not actually what I need, OR that I need 'iterative skills' to fiddle and fluff around to get the best utilisation, to overcome a design defect.

That's how it looks. Am I wrong?

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Last edit: by StewedNKeefed. Reason: spelling

4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17835

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>If you're using this unit just to control subwoofers, then you're far under-utilizing its potential.

I acknowledge this. You need to understand I am interested in hifi in order to listen to music, not to play around with electronics that have misleading or confusing guides to them

Let's get back to marketing. You sell a product to overcome a problem. That's why people buy things.

My problem is 'need more bass to the standmounts'

miniDSP can solve this, while still allowing my valve amp, preamp and other hifi gear to operate to their full capability at 60Hz to 20,000 Hz (plus supertweeter)

I only want miniDSP to handle everything below 60Hz

I followed the advice on the site before selecting and making a purchase.

Now that I have bought and am looking at depth of detail in the forums, I find that the 4x10 plugin is probably not actually what I need, OR that I need 'iterative skills' to fiddle and fluff around to get the best utilisation, to overcome a design defect.

That's how it looks. Am I wrong?


You're completely right. It's a big pain. You can use a 2x4 with lower sampling rate, but then you have more voltage limitations. I needed the higher voltage balanced outputs, which is why i went with the 2x8. One of these days I'll try the 10x10 plugin and see if it's any better.

I recommend running a loop through the minidsp and using free software such as room eq wizard to ensure the frequency response it's producing is what is intended. It's not hard to do, just a little time consuming. This is a flawed product, but unfortunately there aren't too many other dsp's that give you control below 20hz.
The following user(s) said Thank You: StewedNKeefed

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4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17837

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Setting up miniDSP is not easy to a n00b. My main interest at this early stage is to make sure I don't break anything. For example, I have learned that there is a trap that could destroy components, if power on and power off are not done correctly. I live in an area that is prone to power outages, too. I worry about other traps for n00bs.

I am never going to be using microphones etc, I will hire a man to do that, when the room renovations are finshed. In the meantime, I simply want to use my miniDSP to get the bass drivers running.

I strongly recommend that the vendors describe the limitations of their product, as well as the benefits. I feel gulled.

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4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17838

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nyt,

Are you still using your unit, or is this problem a show-stopper for you?

I don't understand the need/desire to program peaks at 15Hz because it's like pushing power into a black hole, but that's sort of beside the point, and I will stipulate that the actual output doesn't look like the representation on the graphic of the GUI.

For whatever reason, a satisfactory solution is not easily implementable by the fellas at miniDSP.

Cheers,

Dave.

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4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17839

  • john.reekie
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Um, isn't the solution to use the 10x10 plugin?
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?

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4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17840

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John,

I also looked at the response with the 48khz plugin for a couple of hours yesterday. It would not be acceptable to nyt either. :)

Dave.

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4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 6 years 4 months ago #17841

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Oh OK. Thanks Dave :)
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?

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