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Re: 4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 9 years 8 months ago #5205

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@ nyt,

We can only say as much as we said on Friday: we'll have our engineering team have a look at the case and your statement that there was something changed in the latest release.. We'll also run again some test to compare with the 48kHz.

Hoping this clarifies.

DevTeam

PS: We'd appreciate no double posting. Thanks for your understanding. :)
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Re: 4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 9 years 7 months ago #5311

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@ nyt,

We can only say as much as we said on Friday: we'll have our engineering team have a look at the case and your statement that there was something changed in the latest release.. We'll also run again some test to compare with the 48kHz.

Hoping this clarifies.

DevTeam

PS: We'd appreciate no double posting. Thanks for your understanding. :)


Hi, any news?

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Re: 4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 9 years 7 months ago #5374

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Any word as to whether 48khz plugin performs better? If you want to send it to me I will test.

Also, any chance on a 24khz plugin for 2x8?

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Re: 4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 9 years 7 months ago #5393

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@ nyt,

Sorry for the delay... It's been a rough week for the team. Thanks for your patience!

- No change on the code for the SubEQ and it tested similar between previous and current version. Which platform are you using? Windows? Maybe easiest that you email to our team so we can see what you mean otherwise we'll consider this issue closed.

- The 48kHz does perform more accurately at 48kHz in the SUB EQ position than the 96kHz. You can have a try at it.

- As for a 24kHz 2x8 plug-in, I think that we have to be honest that the chances are quite low. The majority of our end users doing either 3way or 4way configuration (i.e. won't find any use for a 24kHz plug-in) and if they were to do multisub (i.e. 3-4sub), a 2x4 unit would be a better fit. In other words, I'm sure that you're already aware that your application (i.e. 8xOutputs for more than 4subs is quite unique... :-) Or if it is out there, it's quite limited compared to most common systems.

It doesn't mean that we won't do it but to be fair with the miniDSP community, there are a lot of members here that would like other features to be developed. The SubEQ was already developed as per your request so we have to try to be fair and allow our community to enjoy other feature request as per the spirit of the miniDSP Community. Hoping you agree. :-)

DevTeam
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Re: 4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 9 years 7 months ago #5398

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@ nyt,

Sorry for the delay... It's been a rough week for the team. Thanks for your patience!

- No change on the code for the SubEQ and it tested similar between previous and current version. Which platform are you using? Windows? Maybe easiest that you email to our team so we can see what you mean otherwise we'll consider this issue closed.

- The 48kHz does perform more accurately at 48kHz in the SUB EQ position than the 96kHz. You can have a try at it.

- As for a 24kHz 2x8 plug-in, I think that we have to be honest that the chances are quite low. The majority of our end users doing either 3way or 4way configuration (i.e. won't find any use for a 24kHz plug-in) and if they were to do multisub (i.e. 3-4sub), a 2x4 unit would be a better fit. In other words, I'm sure that you're already aware that your application (i.e. 8xOutputs for more than 4subs is quite unique... :-) Or if it is out there, it's quite limited compared to most common systems.

It doesn't mean that we won't do it but to be fair with the miniDSP community, there are a lot of members here that would like other features to be developed. The SubEQ was already developed as per your request so we have to try to be fair and allow our community to enjoy other feature request as per the spirit of the miniDSP Community. Hoping you agree. :-)

DevTeam

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

The problem with the 2x4 units is the low line levels. I'm actually only using 2 outputs from the 2x8, but it supports 8 volt balanced line levels as opposed to 2v. If the 2x4 would support higher voltages, I would be using one of those, as it is all that I need. I'm using 2 input channels and 2 output channels.

I will try the 48khz platform and see if it works a little better. Trying to EQ around 15-25hz with 96khz is an exercise in futility, as it introduces too many math errors to provide anything useful. I'd love to see a 24khz plugin for this hardware, or hardware that runs a 24khz plugin and supports high voltage balanced line levels. If you have any suggestions for this, I'm all ears. I don't mind buying new hardware if that is what it will take. Also, what kind of costs would it be to get a 24khz plugin for the 2x8 platform developed?

I have a dip around 17-18hz and a couple peaks slightly above 20hz that I am trying to EQ out, but with the 96khz plugin there isn't enough control.

This is unsmoothed, great results above 25hz, but below that not enough control.


For amusement, this is the full system:

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Re: 4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 9 years 7 months ago #5403

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Wow, this setup might be able to blow you away ;-) Very impressive! Thanks for sharing :)

To be honest, I don't think that it would make that much difference (if any) to EQ the small deviations around 18Hz (man, it's < +/- 2dB and probably not perceived aurally). Don't you think this is somehow pedantic ;) On the other hand, such perfectionists like you keep thinks rollin' ;)

What about using a 2x4 plus a small Opamp circuit ( DIY balanced line driver , or google for available products) to increase (and maybe balance) the output? Such a circuit is quite easy to set up and compared to the complete effort you put in your system this will be just "noise" ;)

Daniel

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Re: 4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 9 years 7 months ago #5404

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Wow, this setup might be able to blow you away ;-) Very impressive! Thanks for sharing :)

To be honest, I don't think that it would make that much difference (if any) to EQ the small deviations around 18Hz (man, it's < +/- 2dB and probably not perceived aurally). Don't you think this is somehow pedantic ;) On the other hand, such perfectionists like you keep thinks rollin' ;)

What about using a 2x4 plus a small Opamp circuit ( DIY balanced line driver , or google for available products) to increase (and maybe balance) the output? Such a circuit is quite easy to set up and compared to the complete effort you put in your system this will be just "noise" ;)

Daniel


Thanks. I'm trying to keep the noise floor as low as possible and as much headroom as possible. Even 2v input will clip fairly easy at the boosted levels I run this system at. I'm going to give the 48khz plugin a shot soon though and see if its any better. As for the good results, I was messing with almost random filters for a long time before I managed to find a combination to get it like that. It would be trivial to get that flat if the filters behaved as they should.

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Re: 4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 9 years 7 months ago #5405

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Wow, that's indeed a beautiful setup you've got there NYT!! Thanks for sharing..
Mind posting that pic in the Subwoofer showcase section? We've created a Sub section here:
www.minidsp.com/forum/16-subwoofer-tuning

Thanks for clarifying your setup. You actually need a lot less I/O than expected and we didn't realize that you were after the high level Input/output. When you say you might saturate, do you mean that you have a source (at the input side of the DSP) that outputs more than 2Vrms or is it more that after processing, you may have more peak/EQ that is over the 2Vrms. Most proAV amps can be tuned for 1.4Vrms sensitivity but it's not for all...

We actually like the idea of a Sub proc though... We could put some thinking into the major features required to make it happen. Low sample rate is key for one, but there might be others required.

DevTeam
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Re: 4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 9 years 7 months ago #5406

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Wow, that's indeed a beautiful setup you've got there NYT!! Thanks for sharing..
Mind posting that pic in the Subwoofer showcase section? We've created a Sub section here:
www.minidsp.com/forum/16-subwoofer-tuning

Thanks for clarifying your setup. You actually need a lot less I/O than expected and we didn't realize that you were after the high level Input/output. When you say you might saturate, do you mean that you have a source (at the input side of the DSP) that outputs more than 2Vrms or is it more that after processing, you may have more peak/EQ that is over the 2Vrms. Most proAV amps can be tuned for 1.4Vrms sensitivity but it's not for all...

We actually like the idea of a Sub proc though... We could put some thinking into the major features required to make it happen. Low sample rate is key for one, but there might be others required.

DevTeam


Thanks, I'll put up a post with some information and pics in the subwoofer forum after I get some sleep. For now, all the information is at countercultured.net/pics/ht

I'm running denon 5308 sub outs to the minidsp, and then the minidsp connected to lap gruppen FP14000 clones. The way the system is currently calibrated is that my subs are leveled properly to the mains at -12db on the receiver, which is the minimum. Sometimes listening to music at high levels, it will be boosted to +12db, and the receiver set to high levels as well. It takes a good bit of voltage to get over 130db output levels on a system that can still play at regular levels, hence the need for the 2x8. The minidsp never sees much signal above 200hz, so sample rate isn't terribly important here.

Please let me know what you guys decide to do, as I know there are a good deal of people wanting a high end sub equalizer.

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Re: 4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 9 years 7 months ago #5409

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"We actually like the idea of a Sub proc though... We could put some thinking into the major features required to make it happen. Low sample rate is key for one, but there might be others required."

Why would high sample rate make the EQ harder to control?
__________________________________________
Noah

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Re: 4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 9 years 7 months ago #5410

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"We actually like the idea of a Sub proc though... We could put some thinking into the major features required to make it happen. Low sample rate is key for one, but there might be others required."

Why would high sample rate make the EQ harder to control?


At low frequencies a high sample rate introduces math precision errors.

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Re: 4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 9 years 7 months ago #5412

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One further feature I could think of for a sub plugin beside a low samplerate is more delay. If you want to realize a DBA (Double Bass Array) this might be useful.

Might be a good idea to open a new thread in the "Suggestion Box" ;)

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Re: 4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 9 years 5 months ago #5858

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Nyt,
I read this whole topic and note that you are really grumpy early on, and looking for high quality results, but when I look at your overall published graph I wonder why you are being so precise, when your system response is not that precise.
Firstly, in the band to 80 Hz, you have the gain set at least 4 dB too high. Then you have a 5 dB dip at 80 Hz. Then you have the rolloff above 10 kHz. And of course all of this is in a room which will have many modes.
Care to elaborate?www.minidsp.com/components/com_kunena/te.../emoticons/smile.png
Just yankin' your chain mate.

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Last edit: by radardoug. Reason: spelling!

4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 7 years 7 months ago #13521

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revisiting this again...
is there anyway to load the 8x8 plugin into the 2x8 so it uses 48khz sampling?

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4x10 problems in low frequency ranges 7 years 7 months ago #13530

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is there anyway to load the 8x8 plugin into the 2x8 so it uses 48khz sampling?


Yup, that should work fine; I've done it with my 2x8. You'll have a bunch of inputs on the routing page that are unused on a 2x8 board, but everything else works. Plus one more EQ band per section, dynamics processing on all outputs, and no 'Sub-EQ' required for accurate low freqs if I remember correctly.

-- Jim

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