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Multiple 2x4 HD connected at the same time 11 months 4 weeks ago #55966

  • IEales
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2. At some point, the plugin starts detecting the serials for EVERY unit as 65535 (both in terms of what is displayed in the gui and in the directory structure). This is obviously a bug since (a) I don't own a unit with that serial and (b) this is the square of 256 -- I'm guessing it's the highest value that variable can contain and is the result of some failure in the plugin logic)

I had the identical issue with 2x 2x4HD and 2x Wi-DG. One of the Wi-DG is defective. I purchased another one from Deer Creek and thus far almost no issues. For some reason the Wi-DG corrupts the 2x4HD, wiping out the configuration.

I sent the defective Wi-DG back to miniDSP Hong Kong and they email saying I only included one. DO NOT BUY DIRECT FROM miniDSP. In the US, Deer Creek Audio is head and shoulders better.

It's a PITA switching USP cables, but they are the most reliable solution. For best longevity, I have 2 long A-B USB cables from the 2x4HD to my laptop and use 1 foot A-A extension from the laptop to reduce the number of USB connection cycles on the 2x4HD and laptop.

Compared to the network reliability of my TVs, phones, laptops, Fire sticks, etc. miniDSP products are circa 1985.
Functionally, they are the bees knees and no other solution is as simple.

 

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Multiple 2x4 HD connected at the same time 11 months 4 weeks ago #55967

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> Pretty please, @devteam, respond with the serial restore process. I've already reached out to support but apparently it takes a long time to respond with a link or a document...

Contents of preferences.xml
<preferences>
  <write_sn_tool value="1"/>
  <auto_check_sn value="1"/>
  <sn value="0"/>
</preferences>

Hold Reset Switch while applying power for about 5 seconds

To update serial number:
    Exit miniDSP app
    COPY preferences.xml into user folder
    remove old serial number folder
    Start miniDSP app & Connect via USB
    set serial number
    Cancel to Config
    RESTORE Factory Default
    Reload configs
    REMOVE preferences.xml from user folder
    remove 65535 folder
    
The Wi-DG is defective. Don't use it.

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Last edit: by IEales.

Multiple 2x4 HD connected at the same time 11 months 3 weeks ago #56051

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I had a 10x10HD for 4 years (changed to a nanoDIGI about a year ago).  I was able to vary the volume either by using the knob on the front - or by using my remote; it worked fine.

Also, are you aware you can improve SQ by changing to the 2x10 plug-in ... which runs at 96kHz?
Team: 4lolipop

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Multiple 2x4 HD connected at the same time 11 months 3 weeks ago #56052

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I was able to vary the volume either by using the knob on the front - or by using my remote; it worked fine.


 


Did you monitor the levels in the plug-in?
I can vary the level, just not accurately.

The v2 remote is less prone to get the 2x 2x4HD out of sync wrt level. One click can still be between 0 and ±1.5dB.
In over 30 years of IR controlled devices, miniDSP products are the ONLY ones with inconsistent level steps. Heck, my clicker TV remote 40 years ago was more accurate!

are you aware you can improve SQ...

I r enginerr. I RTFM before I buy.
Regardless of plug-in the 4x10 is somewhat masked. The 2x4HD SQ is miles ahead

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Multiple 2x4 HD connected at the same time 11 months 2 weeks ago #56110

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I have now 3 times written and accidentally lost a post longer than anyone wants to read on this. In summary, 

1. The plugin problem is really odd. The functionality to fix this already exists in the software -- you just check if the serial is in a bad state then throw up a modal dialogue prompting the user to re-enter it from the chassis if it is. This isn't a perfect fix but is user experience 10x better than having someone's hd fail over and over again and having to call support and hoping someone notices the corrupt serial. 

2. I suspect that the WiDg isn't so much defective as a very strange design. I have four connected to four 2x4HDs and this happens with all of them. TCPIP doesn't really allow you to end up with someone else's packets unless your ip address changes to theirs, so baring some catastrophically poor design decision (only thing I can think of is some kind of dependency on a broadcast protocol), I'm struggling to understand how having more than one on a network can result in the serials getting nuked (I asked support for clarification and they never responded)

The even stranger part is that I can't figure out why anyone would want just one of WiDgs. There are an overwhelming number of ways to access USB devices across a network, ranging from hacks to software to hardware. If someone needs a whole wireless bridge to manage a single usb device...it doesn't feel like that person is ready to manage the complex options that the minidsp exposes.

3. The history of computer science is pretty much the history of solving state problems. There are a lot of ways to improve on a fire and forget approach even given the limitations of hardware you've already shipped. All these gyrations with the config state being fragile feel to me like one of two things -- either the business feels this is not worth fixing (and doesn't want Devs using resources to do so) or the plugin code is so intensely hard to build and release that it's not a normal cost-benefit analysis (I've seen this happen to a number of companies)

That said, unless someone from the dev team or the business opts to chime in, we'll just have to keep guessing. 

IEales post=55966

2. At some point, the plugin starts detecting the serials for EVERY unit as 65535 (both in terms of what is displayed in the gui and in the directory structure). This is obviously a bug since (a) I don't own a unit with that serial and (b) this is the square of 256 -- I'm guessing it's the highest value that variable can contain and is the result of some failure in the plugin logic)

I had the identical issue with 2x 2x4HD and 2x Wi-DG. One of the Wi-DG is defective. I purchased another one from Deer Creek and thus far almost no issues. For some reason the Wi-DG corrupts the 2x4HD, wiping out the configuration.

I sent the defective Wi-DG back to miniDSP Hong Kong and they email saying I only included one. DO NOT BUY DIRECT FROM miniDSP. In the US, Deer Creek Audio is head and shoulders better.

It's a PITA switching USP cables, but they are the most reliable solution. For best longevity, I have 2 long A-B USB cables from the 2x4HD to my laptop and use 1 foot A-A extension from the laptop to reduce the number of USB connection cycles on the 2x4HD and laptop.

Compared to the network reliability of my TVs, phones, laptops, Fire sticks, etc. miniDSP products are circa 1985.
Functionally, they are the bees knees and no other solution is as simple.

 

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Multiple 2x4 HD connected at the same time 11 months 2 weeks ago #56111

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The Wi-DG are possibly corrupted or defective.

The response that I got from miniDSP Hong Kong is that the firmware became corrupted:

The test report just came back today and apparently, the firmware on the WI-DG was corrupted when you shipped it to us.

However, our engineers suspect that something might have gone wrong when you were first trying to set up the WI-DG in a dual units setup. We actually stated this as a limitation for the WI-DG in the user manual and using more than one unit is not recommended at this moment.

Which is why I did not purchase Wi-DG when I bought the 2x4HD

Two years later, the Wi-DG page  Using Android / IoS app to control your miniDSP

Linking units For customers wanting to remotely control multiple devices (e.g. control of multiple PWR-ICE/nanoAVR units or multiple USB processors), you can link them up to apply a change (E.g. master volume) on multiple units at once. In the event you're trying to control multiple USB processors (E.g. 2x4HD), you will require one WI-DG per miniDSP USB device. Here are the steps to enable linking from miniDSP's Controller.

It took 90 days to resolve and as yet I do not yet have back my Wi-DG. 

My original Wi-DG SN 180-2265 & 180-2220.
Third W-DG SN 180-1920 which thus far has no issues.

As of late, I have not been doing any configuration using the Wi-DG other than checking and setting plugin levels.

Under an abundance of caution, if using the Wi-DG to configure units, I exit the plugin and restart it prior to connecting the plugin to the Wi-DG.
 

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Multiple 2x4 HD connected at the same time 11 months 2 weeks ago #56112

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Apologies, I should have been clearer. I understand that's what they told you. I'm just having trouble understanding how any of that is a sensible response. But I understand now (they said your firmware was corrupt).

Tbh the whole thing feels like a smokescreen. There's a known problem here. Lots of people can reproduce it. They've slapped a "not supported" label on it because they don't want to take the time to fix it. ACTUALLY, I understand that part. I've worked in software for a long time. It's something you have to do in some cases to survive. 

But I just wish we could get some transparency about what is going on. I'm extremely capable in this area, with an extensive background in network engineering, programming and low-level protocols. Chances are good I could engineer a network-level workaround if I understood what was going on. EVEN if there are some really unfortunate broadcast logic problems, I could fix that with old school network broadcast domain boundaries or l3-7 filtering. 

Problem is, without the code, I'll probably never been able to figure out what is going on (or at least it would take so much effort as to make it pretty unlikely). I just wish they'd be transparent about the root cause. I'm not asking them to fix it, just to tell me what is actually happening, because no combination of what support has said squares with the way network and embedded tech normally works.../

Edit: Didn't think of this before, but assuming it is some kind of broadcast confusion, putting them each in their own vlan might just fix it. I don't have any fancy switches at home anymore but I'll see if my router will let me rerejigger the lan side vlan tagging. But then I'm all the way back to "how the heck was this not fixed a long time ago..."

IEales post=56111

The Wi-DG are possibly corrupted or defective.

The response that I got from miniDSP Hong Kong is that the firmware became corrupted:

The test report just came back today and apparently, the firmware on the WI-DG was corrupted when you shipped it to us.

However, our engineers suspect that something might have gone wrong when you were first trying to set up the WI-DG in a dual units setup. We actually stated this as a limitation for the WI-DG in the user manual and using more than one unit is not recommended at this moment.

Which is why I did not purchase Wi-DG when I bought the 2x4HD

Two years later, the Wi-DG page  Using Android / IoS app to control your miniDSP

Linking units For customers wanting to remotely control multiple devices (e.g. control of multiple PWR-ICE/nanoAVR units or multiple USB processors), you can link them up to apply a change (E.g. master volume) on multiple units at once. In the event you're trying to control multiple USB processors (E.g. 2x4HD), you will require one WI-DG per miniDSP USB device. Here are the steps to enable linking from miniDSP's Controller.

It took 90 days to resolve and as yet I do not yet have back my Wi-DG. 

My original Wi-DG SN 180-2265 & 180-2220.
Third W-DG SN 180-1920 which thus far has no issues.

As of late, I have not been doing any configuration using the Wi-DG other than checking and setting plugin levels.

Under an abundance of caution, if using the Wi-DG to configure units, I exit the plugin and restart it prior to connecting the plugin to the Wi-DG.

 

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Last edit: by marcbittner.

Multiple 2x4 HD connected at the same time 3 months 1 week ago #59881

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What  marcbittner  said,  "without the code, I'll probably never been able to figure out what is going on".
I think the biggest problem with miniDSP is the decision to stick with Adobe Air for the user interface. Yes if they went open source or designed an ABI at least this could remove the burdon of customer questions and make life a whole lot easier for the dev team. I think the plugins look medievel when Rockford Fostgate have blue tooth control from an android app to configure their devices, they know what their customers want and are able to keep up to date and relevent. As great as miniDSP hardware is without drastic changes to the user interface I feel they will lose the game which would be a shame. I know this as Im feeling this way! frustrated with connection issues, nuences with the plugin that could be easily fixed with another framework runtime. Personally Id love to see a node.js based interface. ATM these plugins do not even work on Linux and since the vast market share in front end devices are based on the Linux kernel I think its crazy to not pursue. It just shows a lack of interest in the car audio side of things like a 'that'll do' type attitude. Just my 2 cents, sorry but I need to say it.

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Multiple 2x4 HD connected at the same time 3 months 1 week ago #59882

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I would literally fix some of these things for them if they'd give me the tools to do so. I'm actually *pretty sure* I could single handedly devise a workaround for the issue in this thread if I could see what was happening -- TCPIP is a complex beast, but highly predictable.If SIP can work over a NAT, this is a solveable. 

(I COULD still do it, but I'm not going to spend months back-engineering the binaries and the boards).

I understand there are limitations to what the team can do based on what makes the most money (I've been running dev, infra, and security teams for...a long time). But turning a cold shoulder to some of the most engaged members of your community...that is odd. 

For now, I wrote a simple service to check if the serial corrupted itself and to reinject the proper value once an hour. It's a very dumb hack but investing more energy into a fix that will likely be just as bad as long as there's no clarity on the root cause.., I don't feel like throwing good money after bad. 

Mb

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Multiple 2x4 HD connected at the same time 3 months 1 week ago #59883

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I can't speak for the home audio perspective but I sort of realised today just how much of a headache it is to set REW and all this @:!t up and then have to flip between the two because the pluggins can't be kept live after the standard USB handshake. Can't they be containerized? like virtual? I guess Adobe Air fails here.I suppose this is one of the biggest problems. Ouuh the possibilities of a new framework, hmmm ?

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Multiple 2x4 HD connected at the same time 3 months 1 week ago #59884

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edit: @devteam - in case you never ever noticed the first five times i mentioned it, i'm effectively offering to go hack up a workaround if you would just explain why this occurs. Im a former engineer and i run teams of engineers. i was the architect for several multinational networks.there are very good reasons to think i could devise a workaround.  plug "marc bittner" into linkedin. im usually the first one that pops up. but im not going to commit weeks of time on a fools errand. im not looking for anyone to fall on their sword. i just need to know what the root cause is. 

when i asked support, they knew nothing. 

sigh

</soapbox>

Welcome to our pain. There are a few tricks, though.

1. I've managed to get multiple units working behind a wifi bridge, with the caveat that they spontaneously lose their serials (switching between IPs is marginally easier -- and works until the units wipe their own serial). There's a fairly easy fix for the wiped-serial situation, but automating it is a bear without any hooks into the software

2. You CAN use multiple host machines, meaning you can also use as many individual VMs as you have USB ports on a single machine. This is the best method as far as I know but is hardly convenient. 

3. There are many, MANY configurations I can think of that MIGHT work better using VMs or containers, but I'm all the way back to not wanting to invest time and effort into a Rube Goldberg machine unless I have some indication that I'm going down a non-insane path. Until someone from the dev team or support can explain exactly WHY the serials nuke themselves when you have multiple units behind bridges on the same network OR provide the code so I can go figure it out myself, this doesn't feel like a productive use of time. 

The silence is upsetting. I'm fairly confident this problem is solvable on a systems architecture level even without updating the code to properly track simultaneous connections.If you wanted to go scorched earth you could spin out a vm or container per plugin instance and use a gre tunnel/client isolation / dedicated logical networks over subinterfaces /  or whatever all the way to the device to prevent cross-contamination between the network traffic...but, as above, this isn't a great allocation of time until someone confirms why this happens in the first place...


Mb

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Last edit: by marcbittner. Reason: to annoy you
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