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TOPIC: Setting up separate Rt and Lt sub-woofers & 2-DACs

Setting up separate Rt and Lt sub-woofers & 2-DACs 1 month 1 week ago #50780

  • H1F1nutE
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I upgraded from DDRC22D to SHD studio for subwoofer integration. I plan on using the SHD as pre-amp, 1 stereo DAC for Main speakers and 1 stereo DAC for the two subs. Can someone explain the proper setup for 2 configurations? The subs are directly next to or close behind the mains Lt & Rt respectively. Im considering two configuration options.
1. Play both Rt and Lt channels on both subs
or
2. Play Rt channel only on Rt Sub and Lt Channel only on Lt Sub

How do I set up the inputs and outputs on the attached chart for each of configuration 1 & 2 and where should I connect the two stereo DACs?
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Setting up separate Rt and Lt sub-woofers & 2-DACs 1 month 1 week ago #50790

  • chrissy
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Hi,

I don't know your abbreviations. What does rt and lt mean? Why would you want to play both channels on both subs? Just split it up as proposed in the manual.

BTW: I also use 2 subs split up as proposed in the manual.

Greets
Christian
SHD as Preamp, Squeezelite player and roomcorrection.
Nubert nuVero 60, 2x Elac 2070 Sub, XTZ EDGE A2-300 power amp. Acoustic solid Machine record player, SME 4 Tonearm, Nagaoka MP 500 cartridge,
FI Micro iPhono2 phono preamp, HiFiMan HE1000 SE, Phonitor X phone amp
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Setting up separate Rt and Lt sub-woofers & 2-DACs 1 month 1 week ago #50791

  • Ultrasonic
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I'm sure Rt and Lt are Right and Left @Chrissy :) .
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Setting up separate Rt and Lt sub-woofers & 2-DACs 1 month 1 week ago #50792

  • Ultrasonic
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What crossover frequency do you intend to use @H1F1Nut? So long as it isn't too high the signal routing you've proposed is what I would use. However, with this approach the optimal location for your subs is likely not right by the main speakers. Do you have freedom to position them elsewhere?
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Setting up separate Rt and Lt sub-woofers & 2-DACs 1 month 1 week ago #50793

  • H1F1nutE
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Thanks Ultrasonic, I have limited freedom of placement but my ear is pretty good at localizing the sub regardless of crossover point. I started with a single sub near the left speaker which I dialed in pretty well without the need for DIRAC but still drew my attention to the left. I don't have a good place to center the sub between Rt and Lt speakers. Centering would be distracting because my attention would be drawn to the sub.
So I got a second sub for the right side to balance out the sound. Then got the SHD to optimize phase, delay, x-over, and overall frequency response. I want to try it with Rt & Lt subs but I'm confused on SHD setup for a 2.2 setup and what the setup diagram would look like for the two options listed on my original posting.
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Setting up separate Rt and Lt sub-woofers & 2-DACs 1 month 1 week ago #50794

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Sorry I forgot. The xover is now between 40 and 60Hz set on the subwoofer. I haven't tried the xover on the SHD yet.
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Setting up separate Rt and Lt sub-woofers & 2-DACs 1 month 1 week ago #50795

  • chrissy
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You obviously refuse to read the manual!

It's pretty simple: direct output 1 and 2 to main speakers, 3 and 4 to subs in the output matrix. Choose a crossover in the output menu and apply highpass to main speakers and lowpass to the subs. Leave the subs as high as possible and only use shd as crossover.

Greets
Chris
SHD as Preamp, Squeezelite player and roomcorrection.
Nubert nuVero 60, 2x Elac 2070 Sub, XTZ EDGE A2-300 power amp. Acoustic solid Machine record player, SME 4 Tonearm, Nagaoka MP 500 cartridge,
FI Micro iPhono2 phono preamp, HiFiMan HE1000 SE, Phonitor X phone amp
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Setting up separate Rt and Lt sub-woofers & 2-DACs 1 month 1 week ago #50796

  • chrissy
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PS: below 50 hz it's physically impossible to locate a sub. Don't get cheated by your imagination.
SHD as Preamp, Squeezelite player and roomcorrection.
Nubert nuVero 60, 2x Elac 2070 Sub, XTZ EDGE A2-300 power amp. Acoustic solid Machine record player, SME 4 Tonearm, Nagaoka MP 500 cartridge,
FI Micro iPhono2 phono preamp, HiFiMan HE1000 SE, Phonitor X phone amp
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Setting up separate Rt and Lt sub-woofers & 2-DACs 1 month 1 week ago #50798

  • Ultrasonic
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H1F1nutE wrote:
Sorry I forgot. The xover is now between 40 and 60Hz set on the subwoofer. I haven't tried the xover on the SHD yet.

It might be that the low-pass filter in your subwoofer has a very slow roll-off. When set at say 60 Hz it won't mean you get nothing above this frequency, rather the output will fall off gradually as frequency increases. So, you may have been able to localise the sub but not by hearing where 60 Hz was coming from, but rather some of it's higher frequency output. Similarly, if you pushed it hard enough to get significant harmonic distortion then you may be have been hearing that. As @Chrissy points out, at low enough frequency nobody can tell where the sound comes from.

The crossovers that can be applied by the SHD include options that have much sharper roll-offs. I use a 48 dB/octave filter at 110 Hz don't have an obvious localisation problem but most would probably consider this too high. Experiment...

Oh, and in case this isn't obvious you should definitely set the crossovers in your SHD and disable those on your subwoofers.
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Setting up separate Rt and Lt sub-woofers & 2-DACs 1 month 1 week ago #50805

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Good suggestions all. I actually did read the SHD manual but multi-subwoofer setup wasn't clear to me, On my third read Pg 49 and 50 have the routing tabs for dual subs in summed and separate Lt&Rt sub channels which are exactly what I was looking for.
Experimentation commencing. Wish me luck. Thanks all.
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Setting up separate Rt and Lt sub-woofers & 2-DACs 1 month 1 week ago #50807

  • Ultrasonic
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H1F1nutE wrote:
Good suggestions all. I actually did read the SHD manual but multi-subwoofer setup wasn't clear to me, On my third read Pg 49 and 50 have the routing tabs for dual subs in summed and separate Lt&Rt sub channels which are exactly what I was looking for.
Experimentation commencing. Wish me luck. Thanks all.

In case it's helpful I'll just explain the advantage of sending both sub the sum of the left and right signals, which is definitely what I'd do provided you aren't getting any meaningful output at frequencies you can localise.

Low bass content in music is not always panned dead-center so that you get identical output on each channel. This leads to two advantages of using the same summed bass signal for both subs:
  1. You can optimise the bass signal at the MLP for the left and right channels separately, or both playing together, but unless your system if perfectly acoustically symmetric these with require different EQ/delays and so both can't simultaneously be optimal. By sending the same signal to each sub no matter where bass is in the recording you only have the 'both' situation to deal with and so you know you'll always have to optimal EQ/delays.
  2. No matter where bass is panned in the recording you will always split the workload evenly between your two subwoofers, which will mean more headroom and less distortion for situations where bass isn't panned dead center.

Edit: oh, and a third advantage in general is it means you can choose to site the two subs in the way that gives the optimal bass response, so you could for example have one in the front right corner and the second in the back left corner, or in the middle of a side-wall.
Last Edit: 1 month 1 week ago by Ultrasonic.
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Setting up separate Rt and Lt sub-woofers & 2-DACs 1 month 1 week ago #50809

  • lmerino
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I’ve tried both ways. Subs next to mains, and subs In diagonally opposed corners. I prefer opposed corners.

I read that if they are next to mains you could only send the single left or right channel to the corresponding sub, kind of making your setup like a pair of full range speakers. But then you can still have low frequency gaps in your room just as you would with a pair of speakers.

But if you spread out the subs and send the summed audio you “could” get a smoother bass response throughout the room. This is what I prefer personally.
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Setting up separate Rt and Lt sub-woofers & 2-DACs 1 month 1 week ago #50810

  • Ultrasonic
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lmerino wrote:
I read that if they are next to mains you could only send the single left or right channel to the corresponding sub, kind of making your setup like a pair of full range speakers.

Most people probably do but you don't have to, provided the frequency range sent to the sub isn't localisable as I discussed above. The key point then is that there is the option to put the subs elsewhere which, like you've found, is likely to be superior.
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