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TOPIC: Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction

Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 5 months 2 weeks ago #47572

  • Netvvork
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I have my two vandys dialed in for soundstage. Unfortunately, bass is anemic (to me) at my listening position. They have the ability to reach down low but the only time I hear bass that I like is when I am standing in a corner. Admittedly, I am a bit of a bass head. I am THIS close to tossing my pre amp and just purchasing an SHD and running Dirac live and adjusting it so that there is a bit more oomf. My issue is that there is no trial period or returns and 1200 is pretty steep.

My question is, to those of you without subs and have some full range that can reach low, has this unit helped add a little more bump to your sound?

Thank you in advance.
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Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 5 months 2 weeks ago #47575

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Most probably the lack of bass is due to room- placement- speakers- no subs. Maybe the first thing you need to do is to buy the Umik which is pretty inexpensive and re-usable, measure with REW to get an idea where you stand and then decide where to spend money. If your speakers or room doesn't have enough energy in the region of the first 2-3 octaves, Dirac would not compensate for that.
Last Edit: 5 months 2 weeks ago by dionisp.
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Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 5 months 2 weeks ago #47576

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First post here, hope this helps:
I have always been a Vandersteen fanatic. Went from the 1B (yes I am old) to the 2CE (not Sig). Bass response always depended on room acoustics. First room with carpet was laid back but solid bass. Most recent room with wood floors was boomy and extremely hard to control highs. At the time I was unaware of any MiniDSP products. I ended up selling the 2Ce’s to a co-worker (who loves them). I would have loved to try tuning speakers with the SHD but did not get the chance. I did have a tube preamp I replaced with the Minidsp SHD and have not looked back. All of the inputs/outputs, streamer, sub management, DAC, Roon endpoint and Dirac room correction make the SHD a fantastic value.

Few questions:
What amp/preamp are you using?
What is your room setup? (Carpet? Speakers pulled out from wall? room size?)

If you have the imaging and soundstage dialed it I assume you have used the Vandy setup instructions and the Vandersteen stands (hopefully filled with lead shot or sand). If not, review the instructions closely. Due to the rear firing speaker and your lack of bass I would suggest moving the speakers closer to the front wall. IMHO focus on pristine speaker placement in your room before any room correction. The SHD is an extremely flexible tool and could help after that. While “audiophiles” will shoot me for saying this, adjusting the target Dirac curve higher in the bass is fantastic for me for late night listening. You could likely use one or more of the four presets for the same.
Good Luck!
Gregg

PS. If you cannot tell, I also love bass but you would be super surprised how well blended bass in with my main speakers using the SHD. If you ever upgrade with a separate sub/s the MiniDSP SHD will be key for tuning.
PPS. I am not sponsored by MiniDSP

My Current Equipment:
MiniDSP SHD
Classe CA-300 Amp
Auralic Aries Mini Streamer w/upgraded power supply
Elac Discovery - Roon Essential Server (Poor man’s Roon solution)
ATC SMC-40 Speakers
REL SHO-3 Subwoofer
Rythmik F15 Subwoofer
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Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 5 months 2 weeks ago #47577

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Hi... First off. I tossed my preamp as well...(well sold it on ebay ;)

NOW it wasn't the greatest..emotiva xsp1 gen2 , but no slouch either.

And the SHD was a huge improvement. Almost like a veil had lifted... and that was before DIRAC was even applied.

Set up wise I am using 2 different sets of speakers... and 4 amps...mono blocks.. I only listen to one pair at a time... depending my mood, and music.

THE SHD is fantastic for this sort of thing . I have 2 DIRAC PRESETS Configured for each speaker set , outputs 1&2 with Dirac presets 1&2 outputs 3&4 with Dirac presets 3&4.

The 1st preset in each grouping is set neutral equalization with Room correction the 2nd is room correction with extra bass dialed in.

Volume control is very accurate , sound very transparent, great micro details. . My system never sounded better and it's so much easier to use and much less cluttered.

A side not....THE A/D sound quality, connecting my phono preamp to the rca inputs was my biggest concern.... worrying about converting my precious vinyl from my technics 1200 G with Dynavector 17DX KaraT mc/ Sutherland Engineering 20/20 phono preamp. But nope....my worries were completely unfounded. Sounds fantastic through the SHD.

Speakers...set 1(for DIRAC presets 1&2) are Focal Aria 948 with 2 ps audio m700.

Speakers...set 2(for DIRAC presets 3&4) are Pure Audio Project Trio's with. ESS-Heil AMT1 driven by two Parasound Halo A 21+ in bridge mode.

Going to SHD was the best upgrade I ever did. Although in fairness my speakers & gear & amplifiers for exceeded the ability of my old emo pre... so I really don't know what the system is capable of doing with a very high end standalone preamp.

A friend of mine just purchased a new Parasound Halo JC2 preamp, and will Bring it by as soon as all these shelter in place restrictions here in the USA are lifted (but for now we're all staying home holding on for dear life :(

If I notice any significant changes however, when I hear the JC2 swapped out for the SHD, I will update this post .


But honestly I don't think you can go wrong with the SHD .

The DAC is also first rate. Besides getting rid of my pre , I also got rid of my Aurilac Altair DAC Streamer. With Roon connected, I HAVE NOT Experience any loss at all in streaming sound quality and I also sort of prefer the AKM sound of SHD DAC , which is a little warmer versus the ESS that was in my Aurilac. But that's a conversation for a different day !!! SO ESS vs AKM people, don't jump on me for that last comment. lol. :woohoo:

Good Luck,....

Cheers
GEO.
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Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 5 months 2 weeks ago #47579

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Setup is
Schiit Freya
Schiit Multibit Gungnir
Odyssey Audio Kismet Monoblocks

This is all in a carpeted finished basement. I would not call this room bright. I Just moved here about a month ago and it seems to be the best room so far in every way but the bass. I have the heavy stands for the speakers and the power I am putting to them is more than sufficient. They are about 35" away from all walls.

My theory is that because I actually set them up using all of the instructions to the T, that I have them playing optimally flat. I DONT LIKE FLAT! Haha! I am one of those 90s kids that had subwoofers in his trunk. The drivers in this speaker can punch and are definitely not too small for the room.

An option is a PEQ, but if I introduce that I might as well go all the way and have the brains of the SHD do it right. I also have my fully KAB modded technics sl1200mk5, which means I would need the full fat SHD for this. I dont know. If I did get the SHD I would first try it with DAC and without. I figure that if the Gumby adds even the slightest bit of quality then I will keep it in the chain. However, so far all I hear and see is that folks are tossing their high dollar DACs after living with the SHD for a bit.
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Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 5 months 2 weeks ago #47580

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Hi, I can’t comment on how good the SHD is as a DAC but I don’t think this is the reason people will be “tossing” their expensive DACs (eDAC) when using an SHD. I think the real reason is there is no logical place in the chain to have a separate DAC when you have a SHD.

Option 1: eDAC then SHD
Pointless. eDAC’s analogue output converted back to digital by the SHD before being reconverted to Analogue.

Option 2: SHD then eDAC
Pointless. You can’t make use of the SHDs 4 separate output channels which allow seamless sub integration.

So the only available option is Option 3: Ditch the eDAC
Last Edit: 5 months 2 weeks ago by asx77. Reason: Poor grammar
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Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 5 months 2 weeks ago #47583

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asx77 wrote:
Option 2: SHD then eDAC
Pointless. You can’t make use of the SHDs 4 separate output channels which allow seamless sub integration.

This is not really correct... if you use one "eDAC" then you use the analog outputs for the sub(s). (While I am inclined to agree that it's pointless it's not because you can't use all 4 channels for sub integration.)
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
Last Edit: 5 months 2 weeks ago by john.reekie.
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Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 5 months 2 weeks ago #47584

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Hi John,
So can you send a stereo digital signal from SHD to the DAC and at the same time send a mono (L+R combined) analogue signal to the sub?
And Dirac will still be able to do the sub integration with main speakers?
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Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 5 months 2 weeks ago #47585

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Interesting. It could be argued that the benefits of a high dollar DAC are more important in the mids and highs.
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Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 5 months 2 weeks ago #47588

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It is interesting in so much as it may open up other opportunities and configurations but I just don’t see how another DAC in the chain makes any sense when Dirac is being used.

Even if it’s the world’s greatest DAC (wgDAC!), Dirac is going to “listen” to the sound produced by the wgDAC (plus amp and speakers and room) and change it to whatever it deems to be “right”. So for as long as Dirac is involved in the chain, the wgDAC isn’t really adding its sonic signature is it? And let’s face it, it shouldn’t have a sonic signature.

If Dirac isn’t going to be used then arguably you’re then using the SHD as a streamer only so go ahead and use the wgDAC as well. But if that’s the case you might as well spend your hard earned 1200 on a dedicated streamer rather than the SHD!!

Btw when I say “you” I don’t mean “you” I really mean “one”.
Last Edit: 5 months 2 weeks ago by asx77. Reason: Clarification
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Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 5 months 2 weeks ago #47595

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Netvvork, It seems like your speakers are set up properly and have good electronics. You could try a test by moving speakers a little closer to the front wall to see if bass improves. There is also a mid-bass control on the back of the Vandersteen's that could increase output a little but it will not likely give the deep bass it seems like you are looking for. I am thinking the SHD could help improve room acoustics and could likely give you the the bass boost tuning you are looking for. Simply configure a few presets with a few db bump in the bass region. Another option could be a quality powered subwoofer first (yes, another audiophile “no no”). I used to have a Vandersteen 2W sub and it sounded really good for music but still would not likely provide the SPL you seem to be looking for. Maybe try an SVS, Velodyne, JL Lab, REL with a ~50Hz crossover and see what you think.
Good luck on your journey.
Thanks,
Gregg
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Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 5 months 2 weeks ago #47597

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My understanding is that Dirac dose more than just improve bass. Some have said that it improves phase and timing across the entire frequency band and that the results are not subtle. There is also the idea of channel balance. My room is not symmetrical and it sometimes seems that one side is a tiny bit louder than the other. Nothing I can do about that without DSP. The SHD just seems like a win win.
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Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 5 months 2 weeks ago #47598

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asx77 wrote:
Hi John,
So can you send a stereo digital signal from SHD to the DAC and at the same time send a mono (L+R combined) analogue signal to the sub?
And Dirac will still be able to do the sub integration with main speakers?

Hi again, yes to the first. The digital outputs have the same signal as the analog outputs. Caveat: there is one issue which has come up on the forum here which is that some DACs have unusually high latency, Chord being the one that's been mentioned because of their FPGA FIR filtering. (I forget the delay numbers mentioned but a search would turn it up.)

On the second, the sub integration (in either case) has to be done manually using the miniDSP crossovers. Dirac Live will measure and correct the combined response as measured for left and right channels prior to the crossover.

HTH :)
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 5 months 2 weeks ago #47599

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Netvvork, I agree with your assessment. Dirac and SHD will help with a ton more than just bass. I should have asked more specific questions about your room. I did not buy the SHD for bass control at all but after correcting my other room problems in my room, the bass management has become a huge SHD benefit.

Would love to hear your experience with the SHD after you purchase it.
Good Luck!
Gregg
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Vandersteen 2ce Signature 2 - 2ch Bass Correction 2 months 3 weeks ago #49632

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Sneaking in here, so if both inputs are chosen in the matrix mixer for say Output 1 the there will be a digital stereo signal out?
Best
/Stefan
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