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TOPIC: When to unlink channels?

When to unlink channels? 7 months 3 weeks ago #46915

  • arjenfokkema
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Hello Dirac users, my left speaker is placed (very) close to the sidewall and close to the corner while the right speaker is placed well away from any corners. This is the main reason why I bought a DSP, however, I've been trying to make the SHD Studio work in my setup for months now without a satisfying result so I am listening with Dirac switched off. With Dirac the sound is 'unnatural', thin and not dynamic. Bass is weak and not well defined. Without Dirac the bass is boomy but overall it sounds more 'natural' or 'real'.

Today I've read a post of someone recommending to unlink the channels and have a separate target curve for each speaker.

Could unlinking work in my situation? Looking at the measurements, do you have any advice for the target curve design?

Thank you!
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When to unlink channels? 7 months 3 weeks ago #46917

  • Ultrasonic
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How much have you experimented with changing the target curve in Dirac? Looking at the target curve in your picture I'm not at all surprised that the bass sounds weak!

Just to get an idea of the sort of difference that can be made I'd try moving the three lowest frequency points on your first graph up by 4 dB and then seeing what you think.

Edit: and I would not unlink channels unless you exhaust what can be achieved with them linked. I really doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
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When to unlink channels? 7 months 3 weeks ago #46920

  • entripy
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The target should remain the same for both channels, Dirac will drive the channels differently if required by the different speaker placements. Are you really sure you just haven't got used to the wrong boomy sound such that the right unboomy sound sounds wrong? The differences can be enormous and change can be hard to accept.

Like you I use the default target curve and the results were excellent, but as ultrasonic says, try changing the still linked target curve if it really seems light to you.
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When to unlink channels? 7 months 3 weeks ago #46933

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Thank you both for the suggestions!

I did try different target curves (such as by NAD and Harman), I just used the screenshot of the saved measurements with the default target curve in my initial post.

Today I used a Harman target curve with a boost in the bass, following more or less the natural response of my speakers, see screenshot. Maybe I should give it some time, to get used to that sound before switching Dirac off again...

Any thoughts regarding this curve? I see some heavy drops and peaks in the bass response, should I adjust the curve there or can Dirac take care of it?
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When to unlink channels? 7 months 3 weeks ago #46936

  • entripy
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That is the measured response from what I can see, select the corrected response which is what Dirac estimates you shoul hear.
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When to unlink channels? 7 months 3 weeks ago #46939

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arjenfokkema wrote:
Today I used a Harman target curve with a boost in the bass, following more or less the natural response of my speakers, see screenshot. Maybe I should give it some time, to get used to that sound before switching Dirac off again...

Do you still find the bass 'weak'?

arjenfokkema wrote:
Any thoughts regarding this curve? I see some heavy drops and peaks in the bass response, should I adjust the curve there or can Dirac take care of it?

As @Entripy said, your screenshot just shows the measured response, not what you'll end up with once Dirac is applied. I suspect the corrected curves will have much less significant dips.

You might want to try only applying Dirac below 200 Hz, by dragging the right limit back to this point. I'm saying this partly in case it's changes at higher frequencies than you think which are the problem here.
Last Edit: 7 months 3 weeks ago by Ultrasonic.
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When to unlink channels? 7 months 3 weeks ago #46941

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A problem with limiting Dirac to below 200Hz is the poor measured response above 10kHz which Dirac is applying significant boost to. I would expect Dirac to be adding "air" here which I would certainly miss.

Another option might be to add a gentle boost to the target around 1kHz to match the speaker voicing in the midrange more.
A little more around 150Hz may help too. If you were happy with your original speaker voicing there's nothing wrong with making the target a very smoothed version of the average measured response, sort of removing the room voicing but keeping the speaker voicing.
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When to unlink channels? 7 months 3 weeks ago #46945

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This screenshot shows the corrected response. Looks quite smooth to me, except for the 60-90 hz range and around 210 hz.
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When to unlink channels? 7 months 3 weeks ago #46946

  • entripy
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The 210Hz dip is only on the left channel I presume, your badly placed speaker, so may be the best Dirac can do on that channel.
How does it sound to you anyway? That's what it is all about.
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When to unlink channels? 7 months 3 weeks ago #46948

  • Dj7675
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Also, if you are coming from a system that has a loudness compensation feature, that could be an issue as well. If you listen well below reference level, you will need more boost. It may even maker sense to save a couple of curves... ie one for low level listening, regular and loud. I am still hoping minidsp will enable a variable loudness feature but so far it hasn't showed up. For example the RME ADI-2 has this and evidently works great.
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When to unlink channels? 7 months 3 weeks ago #46950

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I did some tweaks to the curve as suggested to follow the speakers response. Also I compared <250hz only vs. full range and prefer full range. I am getting there! B)

Will experiment a bit more with the bass range, it may be that the increase in the sub-bass created a sense of scale, as you are listening to larger speakers, being closer to the live experience.
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When to unlink channels? 7 months 3 weeks ago #46951

  • Ultrasonic
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arjenfokkema wrote:
Will experiment a bit more with the bass range, it may be that the increase in the sub-bass created a sense of scale, as you are listening to larger speakers, being closer to the live experience.

I'm pleased to see you're making progress :) . Just thought I'd mention that your last comment is making me think that longer term you may want to think about adding a good subwoofer to your system. I use one, and so I believe does @entripy.
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When to unlink channels? 7 months 2 weeks ago #47006

  • jsimon7777
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What speakers are you running? Dirac can only deal with some flaws in the speakers.
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When to unlink channels? 7 months 2 weeks ago #47007

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The Quadral Aurum Rodan

Type
3-way

Principle
Druckkammer/Bassreflex

Nominal/music power (W)
180/300 W

Frequency response (Hz)
28…65.000 Hz

Crossover frequency (Hz)
250/3.500 Hz

Efficiency (dB/1W/1m)
86 dB

Impedance (Ohm)
4

Tweeter
quadral quSENSE® 50mm aluminium ribbon

Midrange
155 mm Ø quadral ALTIMA®

Woofer
2x 155 mm Ø quadral ALTIMA®

Size (w x h x d) in cm
99 x 22 x 35 cm

Weight in kg
28,9 kg
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