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TOPIC: Coaxial digital output to AES3 input

Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 3 months ago #46676

  • Ehcchan
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thx for your advice. Unfortunately, I don't have any DAC and oscilloscope.
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Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 2 months ago #46682

  • dreite
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Ehcchan wrote:
thx for your advice. Unfortunately, I don't have any DAC and oscilloscope.
Well, maybe a friend with a DAC you could borrow?

According to Dutch and Dutch, an AES terminator plug is required on the last speaker in the chain. I assume you're using that? If so, try not using it since that will result in a higher voltage being present at your AES input.

I find it helpful many times to have a cheap DAC kicking around for just this type of troubleshooting. I have a Topping D30 that's been used multiple times for this kind of thing.

If you believe there's actually nothing at the SHD coax digital outputs, then you'll have to contact miniDSP for guidance.

Dave.
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Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 2 months ago #46722

  • Dj7675
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dreite wrote:
jsimon7777 wrote:
This is what you need: www.amazon.com/Hosa-CDL-313-Coaxial-SPDI...U-Link/dp/B000068OGS

Then string one speaker to the other.

Or you should have just gotten the SHD Studio in the first place. I go SHD studio straight to my JBL 708p and then coax to a DAC to my single massive sub.
FYI, the 708p's don't terminate correctly if chaining them per the recommendation. If you go from a standard AES source to one speaker and then via the Digital Through to the other speaker, your source sees a 55 ohm termination, not 110 ohm. However, it still works okay.
Some other digital input monitors do this as well. That's why I was asking ehcchan about his specific speakers.

Dave.
I am daisy chaining to 708ps with SHD Studio is aes. What issues will this cause? Better to go direct to each speaker from the 2 aes outs on the studio?
Last Edit: 1 year 2 months ago by Dj7675. Reason: Typo
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Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 2 months ago #46723

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Zero issues. That is how I am doing it.
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Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 2 months ago #46724

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Dj7675 wrote:
dreite wrote:
jsimon7777 wrote:
This is what you need: www.amazon.com/Hosa-CDL-313-Coaxial-SPDI...U-Link/dp/B000068OGS

Then string one speaker to the other.

Or you should have just gotten the SHD Studio in the first place. I go SHD studio straight to my JBL 708p and then coax to a DAC to my single massive sub.
FYI, the 708p's don't terminate correctly if chaining them per the recommendation. If you go from a standard AES source to one speaker and then via the Digital Through to the other speaker, your source sees a 55 ohm termination, not 110 ohm. However, it still works okay.
Some other digital input monitors do this as well. That's why I was asking ehcchan about his specific speakers.

Dave.
I am daisy chaining to 708p with SHD Studio is aes. What issues will this cause? Better to go direct to each speaker from the 2 aes outs on the studio?
The JBL's do not do the termination scheme correctly, but whether it causes issues depends much on the source characteristics.
Ideally, this should be done as "Ehcchan" related the Dutch and Dutch does it.....with no internal termination, but a movable XLR plug that provides the termination to the last device in the chain. In this way you could attach > 2 speakers to the system and not run into issues.

This is not unlike the CAN bus in your car, or an old-style 10base2 ethernet network, or many terminated network configurations.

If you attached 3-4 JBL 708 speakers to your chain, I suspect the setup would quit working.

Dave.
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Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 2 months ago #46726

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The manual says a maximum of 4 speakers daisy chained.
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Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 2 months ago #46728

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jsimon7777 wrote:
The manual says a maximum of 4 speakers daisy chained.
It might still work, but the signal level will get pretty low.

Regardless, we're off the track of the original problem noted here.....which seems to be an invalid and/or missing S/PDIF data stream from an SHD unit. Since he doesn't have some test equipment nor another DAC to try, we're just spit-balling here.

Dave.
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Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 2 months ago #46731

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dreite wrote:
jsimon7777 wrote:
The manual says a maximum of 4 speakers daisy chained.
It might still work, but the signal level will get pretty low.

Regardless, we're off the track of the original problem noted here.....which seems to be an invalid and/or missing S/PDIF data stream from an SHD unit. Since he doesn't have some test equipment nor another DAC to try, we're just spit-balling here.

Dave.

I would not expect the D&D to take coaxial input without a converter.
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Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 2 months ago #46741

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jsimon7777 wrote:
dreite wrote:
jsimon7777 wrote:
The manual says a maximum of 4 speakers daisy chained.
It might still work, but the signal level will get pretty low.

Regardless, we're off the track of the original problem noted here.....which seems to be an invalid and/or missing S/PDIF data stream from an SHD unit. Since he doesn't have some test equipment nor another DAC to try, we're just spit-balling here.

Dave.

I would not expect the D&D to take coaxial input without a converter.
Well, what you expect is beside the point. I've input a S/PDIF level signal into an AES input on numerous devices through the years. Generally, it does work.

Dave.
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Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 2 months ago #46784

  • Ehcchan
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jsimon7777 is correct.

I have just received a AES/EBU Impedance Transformer Adapter (Neutrik NADITBNC-MX) and a BNC to RCA adapter. It simply works. This means impedance transformer is a must for D&D speaker in my case and SHD is just working fine. The sound is fantastic and just need to lower the volume because it becomes louder when compared with same level with the analog output.
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Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 2 months ago #46785

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Good deal.

A proper AES source level is 2V P-P minimum. So, you've accomplished the impedance transformation, but you still don't have a proper signal level. To really interface this correctly per the IEC 60958 standard, it requires an active interface device to raise the voltage level much higher. This would allow to drive a much longer cable as well......should you want to.

As I mentioned earlier, sometimes a simple interface without impedance correction will work....sometimes not. It depends upon both the source and load characteristics of the specific devices.

Dave.
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Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 2 months ago #46787

  • jsimon7777
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How long is the cable?

From what I have read, most spdif and aes implementations ignore unnecessary parts of the spec.
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Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 2 months ago #46788

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jsimon7777 wrote:
How long is the cable?

From what I have read, most spdif and aes implementations ignore unnecessary parts of the spec.
Regards the protocol, yes.
But the nominal signal levels are quite different though. And there's a large window variation that each device (source and/or load) might be tolerant of. Even with a transformer taking care of the impedance correction, the resultant signal level is still at the bottom of the specified minimum input range of an AES device.

His setup is working now, but I suspect it's on the hairy edge of not working. :) This is a situation where you're interfacing two non-compatible devices.....in the strictest sense.

For those interested, I suggest to read RaneNote 149 on their website.
www.nu9n.com/images/AES3-SPDIF-notes.pdf
Take special note of the "Conversion Caution" section.

Dave.
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Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 2 months ago #46791

  • Ehcchan
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It is 2m long.
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Coaxial digital output to AES3 input 1 year 2 months ago #46792

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Ehcchan wrote:
It is 2m long.

From what I've read, that length would be too long without the impedance adapter. That you otherwise get reflections on the cable.
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