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TOPIC: LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD

LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD 4 months 2 weeks ago #43059

  • Egoquaero
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Hey guys!
I have this strange distortion when streaming music through Airplay, LAN source. Distortion as in the form of crackles.
And it's present with either Dirac ON or OFF (and either with Roon or Tidal).
No problems when connected with Toslink or USB.
Interestingly I tried sending the Airplay signal (Audio + Video) to my Samsung TV and output the audio signal from the TV (through Toslink) to the Minidsp SHD. Well... same problem. This makes me presume it's a software problem...

Let me know guys if you can help. Airplay was one of the main reasons I opted for the SHD :(
Never had any problems with other streamers through Airplay with the same Mac or iPhone
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LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD 4 months 1 week ago #43146

  • petersv
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i use Airplay on my miniDSP SHD Studio exclusively and tbh, i haven't had any issues.

Just know that although the compression codec of Airplay is lossless (ALAC), the transport protocol is not lossless (UDP) the data can get corrupted during transmissions (unlike everything else you're used to with the internet/networking, ie TCP).

So if you have any network infrastructure issues, ie WiFi packet loss or poorly shielded ethernet cables causing packet retransmission ... you're going to have issues with AirPlay... regardless of the hardware device / receiver being used
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LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD 4 months 1 week ago #43152

  • jaaptina
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Last Edit: 4 months 1 week ago by jaaptina.
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LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD 4 months 1 week ago #43157

  • Egoquaero
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Hi petersv!
I tried many different cables and arranged cables in different ways to have as little interference as possible. It doesn't work.
The router I use is a Netgear top of the line. I doubt it handles the signal so poorly...
And anyway the main point is that all my other Airplay devices (receiving the same signal) play perfectly without any audible distortions.
For instance, my integrated amplifier Hegel H190 receives and plays the same airplay signal perfectly. Same goes for Chord Mojo DAC + Chord Poly streamer combination.
If nobody else is having this problem I start to think that the piece I received might be defective.
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LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD 4 months 3 days ago #43238

  • devteam
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@Egoquaero

Quite an odd issue here... That statement makes it very odd " I tried sending the Airplay signal (Audio + Video) to my Samsung TV and output the audio signal from the TV (through Toslink)to the Minidsp SHD. Well... same problem. This makes me presume it's a software problem "

i.e. Airplay processing on the SHD actually got little to do with it since your TOSLINK output from your samsung signal (PCM) has zero airplay link.. Do you understand what we mean?

Maybe run a quick test, connect a simple DAC to your Samsung TV when streaming via Airplay?

We're guessing that you're running the latest firmware/software on this setup?

DevTeam
miniDSP, building a DSP community one board at a time.
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LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD 4 months 3 days ago #43248

  • Egoquaero
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@devteam
Thanks for your answer. However I don't hide the fact that I'm a bit disappointed with your service, guys. I dropped you an email roughly 20 days ago, I didn't get any replies from you and it's not the first time this happens. In another email I had asked you about the SHD's internal dacs' delay (cc Chord Electronics) and again no answer from you while Chord replied an hour later. Even if you don't know the answer at least just write me back please stating so.
And this is quite frustrating considering that I bought a product from you costing 1200 USD, plus 300 EUR of taxes and VAT for Italy. And yes, this is another painful topic. Throughout the whole buying process there was no mentioning that I would have needed to pay those 300 euro extra of taxes. The surprise arrived with DHL's call and I eventually understood you shipped from Hong Kong. I digged more in your website and yes, this was stated in your FAQ section but still you can't pretend that each customer goes through your FAQ before buying anything. If nothing on the matter appears throughout the buying process the customer just assumes that 1199 USD is the price.
I don't mean to put you in bad light just for the sake of it. I still think the product is great, but please understand my frustration of paying all that extra money, not being able to use the streamer functionality and not getting customer assistance.

So back to the topic.
Yeah I know what you mean about the Mac --> Samsung toslink optical --> SHD issue and it's indeed very strange.
You suggested to put a dac with the Samsung TV. You meant putting a dac between the TV and SHD right? Anyway, I ran a few setups and they apparently have different levels of distortion.

A. No distortion setups:
Macbook --> via Toslink optical --> SHD
Macbook --> via USB --> SHD
Digital piano --> via XLR --> SHD
Macbook --> via Airplay --> Hegel H190 integrated amplifier (Without SHD)
Macbook --> via Airplay ---> Chord Mojo Dac + Chord Poly Streamer --> via RCA --> Hegel H190 integrtated amplifier (Without SHD)

B. Setups with distortions only when cranking up the volume at around 80db and overall sound is not as transparent as in point A setups:
Macbook --> via Airplay --> Samsung TV --> via Toslink optical --> Chord Mojo Dac --> via jack 3.5 to two XLR --> SHD xlr analog input
Macbook --> via Airplay --> Chord Mojo Dac + Chord Poly Streamer --> via jack 3.5 to two XLR --> SHD xlr analog input

C. Setups with very strong distortions even at low listening volume (65-70db):
Macbook --> via Airplay directly to --> SHD
Macbook --> via Airplay --> Samsung TV --> via Toslink optical --> SHD
Macbook ---> via usb --> Chord Mojo --> via jack 3.5 to two XLR --> SHD xlr analog input
(and the distortion in this last setup is confusing me even more, since Airplay is not even involved…)

Please help me with this one since streamer capabilities was one of the main reasons I opted for the SHD.
Let me know guys, if you need me to try more setups.
Cheers!

Edit: Yes, I updated to the latest firmware first thing after I got it.
Last Edit: 4 months 2 days ago by Egoquaero.
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LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD 3 months 6 days ago #43816

  • Egoquaero
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up
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LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD 3 months 6 days ago #43818

  • Klangzone
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Airplay requires that the output gets synchronized to the playback clock -- there are mechanisms for this in the airplay library from apple.

problem is that the implementation in this case comes from Volumio which I doubt is taking care for this.

So it can be that if the device clock is slowly off from the playback clock that it catches up by a short click on regular basis.
I do also see it on my device - sometimes more - sometimes less - sometimes nearly not audible.

those are assumptions but should be answered by the tech team - I am only making assumptions.

I decided not to use airplay on the SHD as the volumio implementation does not seem to be conform standards (which are anyway not that easy to stay comatible with as dictated by apple).

UPNP is the best method to be used for streaming on the SHD in my opinion (several UPNP options available).
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LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD 3 months 3 days ago #43891

  • Egoquaero
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Hi Klangzone, thanks for your help!
Let's wait for a technical answer from devteam...

It's quite frustrating here, no way to use Airplay and no Roon integration... How am I supposed to stream music with this streamer? I'd like to stream Tidal's music catalogue
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LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD 3 months 3 days ago #43892

  • john.reekie
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Egoquaero wrote:
How am I supposed to stream music with this streamer? I'd like to stream Tidal's music catalogue

You can stream Tidal from the Volumio interface, see user manual section "PLAYING AUDIO /QUICK-START GUIDE".
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD 3 months 2 days ago #43898

  • Klangzone
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sorry this info is incorrect except that airplay uses alac.

just wanted to say that so that others dont make wrong conclusions
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LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD 3 months 1 day ago #43901

  • rodrigaj
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Klangzone wrote:
sorry this info is incorrect except that airplay uses alac.

just wanted to say that so that others dont make wrong conclusions

What info are you referring to?
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LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD 2 months 1 week ago #44306

  • sebastianstumpf
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I have experienced exactly the same issue with distortion that I first thought were clipping noise, but it also happens on low volume parts of the music.
I had the same issue when streaming through an Airport Express over AirPlay and here it comes:
This is an issue that I could solve after long search in the web in the Airport express by going back to an old firmware.
So this has something to do with the implementation of Airplay in Volumio.
Kind regards,
Sebastian
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LAN source, Airplay distortion with SHD 1 month 3 weeks ago #44492

  • Klangzone
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it is simply an audio clock issue - the streaming device has to adjust the output to play at the right speed - otherwise it has to synchronize again which can only be done via skipping or adding audio samples (not nice and can generate clicks / noise) or resampling.
both options are not ideal -- so best would be to adjust the output IIS clock to play according to the needs of the incoming stream.

as indicated before - the airplay implementation in volumio needs improvements.
Last Edit: 1 month 3 weeks ago by Klangzone.
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