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TOPIC: is Volumio held in firmware? change it to JRiver?

is Volumio held in firmware? change it to JRiver? 3 months 5 days ago #41769

  • xrqp
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The SHD App notes shows how to setup JRiver. If I do that:
  • does it leave Volumio on the SHD?
  • does Jriver run on the same SHD internal Linux processor board?

    The owner manual says:
    the miniDSP SHD Series ship with Volumio, running on its own Linux processor board within the processor chassis.
    What kind of memory is Volumio using so it can start up?
    Is it changeable by firmware change?

    Can i remove (or overwrite) this Volumio and put Jriver "on its own Linux processor board within the processor chassis" instead?
Last Edit: 3 months 5 days ago by xrqp.
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is Volumio held in firmware? change it to JRiver? 3 months 5 days ago #41771

  • john.reekie
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If you are referring to the NAS app note, JRiver is installed on a computer, not on the SHD. The SHD still runs Volumio.

Further along in the manual it says something like changing the internal software means no support.
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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is Volumio held in firmware? change it to JRiver? 3 months 5 days ago #41772

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When using JRiver and NAS:
  • Is the SHD a client or server?
  • Does the SHD provide a UPNP (or DLNA) function?
  • Can i run it with an iPad, NAS, and SHD all on, but not have another computer powered on?
  • Where does the index of the music library reside?
Last Edit: 3 months 5 days ago by xrqp.
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is Volumio held in firmware? change it to JRiver? 3 months 5 days ago #41773

  • john.reekie
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Huh? The app note clearly talks about installing JRiver on a computer.

Are you able to run a DLNA server on your UNRAID box? A quick search suggests that a plex docker might be how people do that.
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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is Volumio held in firmware? change it to JRiver? 3 months 5 days ago #41774

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Looks like there's a miniDLNA docker container: forums.unraid.net/topic/44138-support-binhex-minidlna/
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

is Volumio held in firmware? change it to JRiver? 3 months 5 days ago #41778

  • xrqp
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Thanks, John.
Yes, the JRiver would be installed on a computer. I am beginning with the premise that the "MiniDSP app notes" instructions are followed. But all my questions remain.

Unraid does run "Network Services" including NFS , SMB, AFP and FTP. I am not sure what it means in terms of UPNP.

Backtracking to Volumio, Volumio could see my Unraid music shares and it worked (I could play music) if the folder contained 1 album with 10 songs. I don't know if it is using a UPNP function when it worked, but I would be interested to know if anyone knows. When i changed the shared music folder to one that contained 90GB and 6,500 files it took over 4 hours trying to read it in, so i stopped it. So now I am looking into JRiver.

Under the JRiver scenario, I was trying to understand some of the fundamentals of how it works if the MiniDSP app notes (instructions) are followed for using JRiver on the computer, and using a NAS:
  • Is something a client and is something a server, or do those terms not apply?
  • Does it do it with or without a UPNP function? Is UPNP built-in to JRiver?
  • Does not the index library reside somewhere? Where?
  • Is an iPad a computer in this sense? Can I install JRiver on the iPad and not run another computer, except for the NAS and SHD which would run?
I will be trying things, but if I understood the fundamentals, maybe I would be able to zero in on what works best, with less trial and error.

With Aurelic G1 streamer, they said the streamer was the "server" and the library index resided on the ipad (to make it fast), and the G1 streamer, after being instructed by the iPad, would call the file from the NAS. I did not need to run a computer in addition to the G1, NAS, and iPad. So the iPad had to have sufficient memory, but that was not a problem for me.
Last Edit: 3 months 5 days ago by xrqp.
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is Volumio held in firmware? change it to JRiver? 3 months 5 days ago #41784

  • john.reekie
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Thanks, some context helps. NFS, SMB and AFP are file system protocols i.e. the computer (or SHD) "sees" a file system on your NAS. FTP = file transfer protocol, which is not relevant here. UPnP/DLNA (*) is a streaming protocol for sending audio from one thing (the "server") to another (the "renderer", also player, streamer, endpoint, ...).

(*) I'm never sure what the difference is with UPnP and DLNA and which part does which.

When you mount the NAS directly using the Volumio web interface, you're setting up a file system protocol that mpd (the software that Volumio and lots of others use under the hood) uses to scan for files and build an index. I guess in that case I would say the NAS is the server and Volumio is the client. You could use the iPad via the web interface, and arguably call that a client (of the client...) as well. It doesn't store anything.

When you use say JRiver on a computer and point it to your NAS, JRiver is the client, NAS is the server. JRiver scans the remote file system and builds an index of it. When you play audio to Volumio, it uses UPnP/DLNA to send it over the network. You do need to enable the UPnP capability in JRiver. In this case you would use the JRemote on the iPad, I expect it keeps a copy of the index.

The third case is where you run a DLNA server like MinimServer, miniDLNA, etc. In that case the DLNA server scans the filesystem, either local or remote /NAS, and build an index. While it's most efficient to run the DLNA server on the same physical box as the files are located, I'm not sure it's critical - it "just depends." You also need a separate program called a controller which you can run on an iPad. It loads the index from the DLNA server and I guess keeps its own copy. I do this using an ODroid HC1 (needs command line work to set up though).

Oh, I just found this in the Volumio FAQ: "Is there a maximum number of tracks allowed in the music library?
There isn't a maximum number of tracks, but do be aware that indexing of very large collections (>10000) may take some time, especially on lower powered devices." volumio.github.io/docs/FAQs/Audio_Sources.html It's not clear whether this applies to locally mounted drives or NAS/remote or both.

I'm not familiar with how the Auralic products work.

Hopefully that helps provide some fundamentals? The terms "client" and "server" get tossed around without much consistency in what they mean, so maybe better not to worry too much about what each piece is called.

In an attempt to actually answer a question ;)

- "Does not the index library reside somewhere? Where?" It would be on the computer running JRiver. I don't use JRiver much but I recall you have to "save" a library somewhere in the filesystem, that would be where the index is.

- "Is an iPad a computer in this sense? Can I install JRiver on the iPad and not run another computer, except for the NAS and SHD which would run?" I don't believe you can.
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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is Volumio held in firmware? change it to JRiver? 3 months 4 days ago #41792

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xrqp wrote:
When i changed the shared music folder to one that contained 90GB and 6,500 files it took over 4 hours trying to read it in, so i stopped it.

I was thinking this seems unusually slow. Did your library load slow down, or did it just stop completely at a certain point? (Track count stopped incrementing.) I just tried loading from my file server and it stopped at the same file number two times in a row. I see on the volumio forum that there have been issues with certain files causing this.
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
Last Edit: 3 months 4 days ago by john.reekie.
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is Volumio held in firmware? change it to JRiver? 3 months 4 days ago #41796

  • xrqp
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On the SHD Studio with built-in Volumio, when you load a folder of music to the library, a circle spins indicating it is not done. There is no progress indication, no counts, no indication if it is stuck, no indication of what file it is working on. For me, the circle never stopped spinning until I manually stopped the operation.
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is Volumio held in firmware? change it to JRiver? 3 months 4 days ago #41797

  • xrqp
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John, thanks very much for your helpful extensive reply.

On the SHD Studio with built-in Volumio, when you load a folder of music to the library, a circle spins indicating it is not done. There is no progress indication, no counts, no indication if it is stuck, no indication of what file it is working on. For me, the circle never stopped spinning until I manually stopped the operation.
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is Volumio held in firmware? change it to JRiver? 3 months 4 days ago #41799

  • john.reekie
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Hi, it's at the top of the "My Music" page (above where you enter the NAS info).
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
The administrator has disabled public write access.
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