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TOPIC: rePhase 1.4.0

rePhase 1.4.0 2 years 2 months ago #39752

pos
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rePhase 1.4.0 is online: download

1.4.0 2018-12-19
  New features:
    - graphical zoom functionality, similar to HOLMImpulse:
        * clicking and dragging the mouse over the response graph draws a
          zoom box that defines the new graph area when button is released
        * left clicking cancels last zoom operation
        * zoom only affects frequency and magnitude scales, not phase one
    - real-time graphical edition of gain EQ points:
      clicking an EQ fader or entries will turn them yellow to reflect the
      fact that this particular EQ point now has a special focus:
        * mouse wheel changes its Q value while on the response graph
        * middle click or ctrl-click on the response graph updates its
          freq and dB values in real-time while the button is held pressed
        * dB position is relative to the existing target magnitude curve,
          including optional measurement, and is limited to ±96dB per EQ
          (note: it is recommanded to use "constant shape" EQ type for
          high amplitude corrections)
        * modifications can be cancelled as long as focus is not lost
    - "frequency response (.frd)" format to export the generated correction
      (ie the red curves) as a three columns frequency/magnitude/phase file
    - Added "linearize"/"rotate" option in Filter Linearization tab.
      "linearize" is the default and compensates for phase rotation of a
      given filter (inverse all-pass), whereas "rotate" emulates the phase
      rotation of the chosen filter without affecting magnitude (all-pass).
    - New "throughout banks" EQ tools to bypass or order EQ points
      throughout all banks at once. Confirmation is requested as this can
      be an irreversible operation. Ordering EQ points between different
      banks requires EQ types to be identical in all banks.
    - try to let the user save current settings before exiting in case of a
      crash
  Adjustments:
    - frequency marker on the magnitude target curve is replaced with a
      vertical yellow line that reflects both magnitude and phase
      corrections
    - up/down key binding on drop menus to iterate values (same idea as
      existing incrementation/decrementation of entries with numerical
      values)
    - link to rephase.org in Help menu
    - stay in same tab after settings load/reset
    - more compact setting file
    - view preferences are saved on the fly instead of when quitting
    - force entry focus loss when switching tab
    - added Nyquist frequencies of a few common sampling rates in frequency
      upper limit choices in the Range tab
    - removed bypassed EQs from EQ points count in "Bank" drop-down menu
    - avoid saving measurement summary in the setting file, and generate it
      on the fly

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rePhase 1.4.0 2 years 2 months ago #39813

pos
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rePhase 1.4.1 is online: download

1.4.1 2018-12-23
  Adjustments:
    - improved compatibility of frd format:
        * enforce decimal form instead of scientific notation
        * use semicolon instead of tabulation as column separator
        * add commented info (software, url, columns description)
    - improved information in EQ bank drop-down menu, including EQ type and
      number of bypassed EQs
    - dynamically adjusted choices in FFT drop-down menu, removing unusable
      options
    - removed unused EQ type drop-down menus in paragraphic phase EQ tab
    - reworked links and contact info

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rePhase 1.4.0 2 years 2 months ago #39826

pos Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 352 Thank you received: 196 Karma: 39	rePhase 1.4.2 is online: download 1.4.2 2018-12-27 Bug corrections: - corrected graphical EQ manipulation behavior when gain offset is used on a measurement - corrected active EQ focus bug after loading a measurement
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rePhase 1.4.0 2 years 1 month ago #40154

pos
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rePhase 1.4.3 is online: download

1.4.3 2019-01-16
  Bug corrections:
    - after loading a preset, correctly show "rotate" option when set in
      Filters Linearization tab
    - resolved the zoom out (right click) bug where too much zoom states
      were added
  Adjustments:
    - measurement interpolation is now logarithmic in both magnitude and
      frequency axes, so that an interpolation between two points will
      always show as a straight line

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rePhase 1.4.0 1 year 11 months ago #41374

denver8me4dinner Offline Gold Boarder 3038564518 Posts: 268 Thank you received: 53 Karma: 6	Loving the invert/flip on linearaztions as a option Help us fight hunger (and comb Filtering) :-p
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rePhase 1.4.0 1 year 10 months ago #41628

denver8me4dinner Offline Gold Boarder 3038564518 Posts: 268 Thank you received: 53 Karma: 6	How come in the filters linearization tab When you select a filter to linearize It only shows the high pass side of the rotation Thanks in advance
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rePhase 1.4.0 1 year 10 months ago #41657

pos
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Hi Andrew,
denver8me4dinner wrote:

How come in the filters linearization tab
When you select a filter to linearize It only shows the high pass side of the rotation

That is because the low-pass filter follows the exact same phase shift. The low and high-pass LR filters are phase coherent and add in phase.

Of course low-pass filters with an odd order/2 (12dB/oct, 36dB/oct, 60dB/oct, etc.) do need to have their polarity inverted in order to be phase-coherent with the high-pass filter and form a proper crossover.

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Last Edit: 1 year 10 months ago by pos.

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rePhase 1.4.0 1 year 10 months ago #41662

denver8me4dinner Offline Gold Boarder 3038564518 Posts: 268 Thank you received: 53 Karma: 6	Of course! , it didn’t dawn on me. Thank you!
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rePhase 1.4.0 1 year 10 months ago #41666

denver8me4dinner
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pos wrote:

Hi Andrew,
denver8me4dinner wrote:

How come in the filters linearization tab
When you select a filter to linearize It only shows the high pass side of the rotation

That is because the low-pass filter follows the exact same phase shift. The low and high-pass LR filters are phase coherent and add in phase.

Of course low-pass filters with an odd order/2 (12dB/oct, 36dB/oct, 60dB/oct, etc.) do need to have their polarity inverted in order to be phase-coherent with the high-pass filter and form a proper crossover.

So this got me thinking..... this is true if it’s a minimum phase crossover ,
Wouldn’t a linearized crossover behave differently and add different being the sum at -6db is still zero advanced or delayed degrees or radians for the both high and low pass . So wouldn’t the old way of linearized graph be more true to what is actually happening.?

Sorry trying to wrap my head on your logic. Are you saying that the way this is reading is;
1st build your odd order crossover, 2nd invert the polarity on one of the speakers , than 3rd add the linearization to both drivers or just one? Or neither?

If your saying it’s already phase linear with a polarity flip on a speaker , why have this at all.
What am I missing

Thanks

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rePhase 1.4.0 1 year 10 months ago #41670

pos Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 352 Thank you received: 196 Karma: 39	I did not get the "the sum at -6db is still zero advanced or delayed degrees or radians for the both high and low pass " part 12dB/oct multiple LR low-pass filters simply need a polarity inversion to have the same phase shift as their high-pass counterpart, that is all there is to it. It is not linear phase at all. Just play with them and you will see it more clearly.
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rePhase 1.4.0 1 year 10 months ago #41672

denver8me4dinner
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pos wrote:

I did not get the "the sum at -6db is still zero advanced or delayed degrees or radians for the both high and low pass " part

12dB/oct multiple LR low-pass filters simply need a polarity inversion to have the same phase shift as their high-pass counterpart, that is all there is to it. It is not linear phase at all.
Just play with them and you will see it more clearly.

Ha silly me

Okay well a LR crossover “crosses over” at 6db down , so I was referring to the phase position at the crossover in degrees or radians , Which a linear phase crossover is zero.

Regardless, I see what your saying now. And yes , if you reverse the polarity on the low pass ? A high pass linearization is the same thing.... here’s the dealio

maybe we don’t want to reverse the polarity on the low pass and would rather use a linear crossover so we don’t have to reverse the polarity.

Maybe it’s just me and the fact a car environment is so harsh that I don’t hear this alignment by reversing the polarity on a driver in a LR2,

Every time I’ve ever tried , the center becomes diffuse and the speaker sounds out of phase.
So when I used linearization, I could hear the delay from the rolloff vanish and it sounded much better. So I am rolling around thinking I did a good job at rephase , and I’m backwards the whole time , what am I missing.

So just to get this right,
Is it the preferred method to reverse the polarity on the low pass in a LR2 if using linearization on both sides of the LR2?

I get what your saying about the same phase shift as the high pass when reversing the polarity, your reverse the polarity, and the delay in the rolloff shifts also to be the same as the high pass delay. However what bout the rest of the passband? Reversing the polarity would move the rest of the passband to -180 (who wants that) oops:
Wouldn’t linearization solve this ? I’m not seeing why anyone would want a speaker out of phase.

If I build a minimum phase crossover in rephase I can see the passband of the low pass is at 0 and as it rolls off the phase rolls off opposite direction to infinity in the stop band
And a high pass , the passband is at 0 and as it rolls off the phase goes in opposite direction to infinity also. Reversing the polarity on one of the speaker (LP) makes the rolloff phase go the same direction as the high pass but makes the pass band -180out!

no no no

that’s not what we want to do.

Or am I looking at graphs wrong

Last Edit: 1 year 10 months ago by denver8me4dinner.

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rePhase 1.4.0 1 year 10 months ago #41673

dreite
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denver8me4dinner wrote:

pos wrote:

I did not get the "the sum at -6db is still zero advanced or delayed degrees or radians for the both high and low pass " part

12dB/oct multiple LR low-pass filters simply need a polarity inversion to have the same phase shift as their high-pass counterpart, that is all there is to it. It is not linear phase at all.
Just play with them and you will see it more clearly.

So just to get this right,
Is it the preferred method to reverse the polarity on the low pass in a LR2 if using linearization on both sides of the LR2?

No, that would not be the preferred method. If linearizing both HP and LP portions of a crossover filter then reversing the polarity of one (or the other) would yield a deep cancellation null.

You've got yourself turned into a pretzel on this.

I suggest as pos says, to just play around with this via the simulations for awhile and it will become clear.

Dave.

Last Edit: 1 year 10 months ago by dreite. Reason: spelling

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rePhase 1.4.0 1 year 10 months ago #41674

denver8me4dinner
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dreite wrote:

denver8me4dinner wrote:

pos wrote:

I did not get the "the sum at -6db is still zero advanced or delayed degrees or radians for the both high and low pass " part

12dB/oct multiple LR low-pass filters simply need a polarity inversion to have the same phase shift as their high-pass counterpart, that is all there is to it. It is not linear phase at all.
Just play with them and you will see it more clearly.

So just to get this right,
Is it the preferred method to reverse the polarity on the low pass in a LR2 if using linearization on both sides of the LR2?

No, that would not be the preferred method. If linearizing both HP and LP portions of a crossover filter then reversing the polarity of one (or the other) would yield a deep cancellation null.

You've got yourself turned into a pretzel on this.

I suggest as pos says, to just play around with this via the simulations for awhile and it will become clear.

Dave.

That’s what I thought!

So why would he make rephase have linearization for only a highpass, expectant to reverse the polarity on low pass. It seems the old way was more accurate for linearization.
Why would someone only halfway linearize.

It seems we want the linearization graph to show what actually happens and let those ppl who want to run there stereo out of phase use the rotate feature instead.

I love rephase, but this new add is very confusing

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rePhase 1.4.0 1 year 10 months ago #41675

dreite Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 1460 Thank you received: 670 Karma: 84	The relative polarity reversals are only for specific cases using minimum-phase filters. When you start linearizing individual filters and/or applying linear-phase correction filters across the whole band, you can forget the general rules regarding those relative polarity reversals. You're making this a lot more complicated than it really is. Dave.
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rePhase 1.4.0 1 year 10 months ago #41676

denver8me4dinner
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Okay I’m running the sim now

I see what’s going on.

I still think reversing the polarity sounds worse .
Even if it’s a purely minimum phase setup.
I would rather live with the shift than play any speaker backwards

But I need to try this now!

So in a LR2 it looks like you should only linearization on the high pass and both sides will be linear

Okay, that’s more like it. It’s simply not necessary to run linearization on lowpass ....

Okay I love it now .

I’m excited to test it out

Last Edit: 1 year 10 months ago by denver8me4dinner.

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