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TOPIC: miniSHARC + rePhase

miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12595

  • Ken Tripp
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Thanks for your time spent on this Dave and even though the file gave a perfect phase response on your system I think it goes beyond a measuring issue.

REW turns out exactly the same response no matter how I set the timing, reference channel, delay it, IR peak etc.

And it doesn't matter what I try to do with FIR as soon as I add it to the plugin I get exactly the same lumpy amplitude response.

Green is crossover done in IIR, all the other identical curves are with filter linearization or the filters done in FIR etc.



And when you look at the distortion, no FIR...



And with FIR, and again it doesn't matter what FIR you apply the distortion graph is the same...



This can't be right.

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Re:Re: miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12602

  • orangeart
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That's very odd, I've got a strange problem as well with rephase generated filters. Nobody has offered any advice in my thread yet but I wonder if the problem is similar?

How does you rephase filter sound? Mine sounds like a dalek.

Unfortunate thing is I'm supposed to be demonstrating the use of linear phase FIR crossovers at Scalford audio show next weekend :-( I was kind of hoping to help boost the sales of this tech as an easier approach than designing analogue filters......

Stefan

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Re:Re: miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12618

  • dreite
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Ken,

It seems like you have a problem unrelated to the FIR implementation. If your IIR response is not flat either (green trace) then this must be some sort of testing anomaly and/or a hardware problem with your miniSHARC board or the attached DAC's.

I'll I can offer at this point is that your rePhase generated FIR file looks perfect on my system.

Cheers,

Dave.
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Re:Re: miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12621

  • Ken Tripp
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Stefan,

As much as I appreciate Dave's input it would be nice if others would join the conversation. Hopefully someone that knows what's going on.

DevTeam for one.

It doesn't sound good or look good.

Here's the output of the Mid channel (1000hz LR4 HP + 4800hz LR4 LP) with a 2000hz input.

No FIR...



and with any sort of FIR added you get massive distortion...

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Last Edit: 6 years 4 months ago by Ken Tripp.
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Re:Re: miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12622

  • Ken Tripp
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dreite wrote:
Ken,

It seems like you have a problem unrelated to the FIR implementation. If your IIR response is not flat either (green trace) then this must be some sort of testing anomaly and/or a hardware problem with your miniSHARC board or the attached DAC's.

I'll I can offer at this point is that your rePhase generated FIR file looks perfect on my system.

Cheers,

Dave.

Thanks again Dave and if we can accept that rePhase is outputting what it should be can we now move onto the plugin and the board itself.

Step by step if you would please.

How are you getting the required .BIN file into the Plugin (because there sure as hell isn't any documentation on how to do this).

Cheers,

Ken
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Re:Re: miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12623

  • Ken Tripp
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"As much as I appreciate Dave's input it would be nice if others would join the conversation. Hopefully someone that knows what's going on."

Dave,

I tried to edit this post but wasn't allowed to, no idea why.

I wasn't suggesting that you didn't know what was going on, just seeking some additional helpful input :)

Cheers,

Ken
Last Edit: 6 years 4 months ago by Ken Tripp.
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Re:Re: Re:Re: miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12624

  • orangeart
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Ken Tripp wrote:
Stefan,

As much as I appreciate Dave's input it would be nice if others would join the conversation. Hopefully someone that knows what's going on.

DevTeam for one.

It doesn't sound good or look good.

Here's the output of the Mid channel (1000hz LR4 HP + 4800hz LR4 LP) with a 2000hz input.

No FIR...



and with any sort of FIR added you get massive distortion...


Hmm we both must be doing the same wrong thing. I haven't actually measured mine but it sounds terrible. I suspect I'm loading it incorrectly somehow. I did it in the same order as you posted earlier (amongst others) but all the same.:mad:

Hope you get to the bottom of it. I've got other problems with my setup I need to work through as well......nearly there.....

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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Re:Re: Re:Re: miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12628

  • dreite
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Ken,

Your file is 1024 taps and the output of each channel of the miniSHARC plugin is limited to 512 taps. So, I took some taps from the other channels so I could successfully load it without an error indication.

Then all I did was "Browse" to the file, select it, and then hit the "Send to DSP" button. Click the "Bypass" button (if necessary) to make sure the red light goes out.

Dave.
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Re:Re: Re:Re: miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12630

  • Ken Tripp
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Dave,

I'm only using 4 channels so 4k @ 96khz works fine at average of 1024 taps per channel.

And that's the procedure I'm using also.

Why it's not working for me and Stefan is a bit of a mystery.

You are using the latest firmware and the latest build of the 4x8 plugin?

Cheers,

Ken
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Re:Re: Re:Re: miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12631

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Yep, I have the latest firmware installed. That phase plot I posted yesterday was measured with the latest 48khz plugin, but I've since run it with the 96khz plugin and that looks okay also.

I'm still puzzled why your green trace in post 12595 (no FIR) is not showing a flat amplitude response. It should be absolutely flat if you're loading the phase-correction .BIN file only.

Maybe you have some other variables here that I'm not aware of??

Dave.
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Re:Re: Re:Re: miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12636

  • Ken Tripp
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Apologies for the confusion Dave, that's the response with the 1000hz LR4 HP and 4800hz LR4 LP IIR implemented filters in place.

The other curves (all identical) are with the same filter but with FIR phase correction added and then with no IIR filters and the filtering done via FIR.

The fact that all the amplitude response curves are the same as are the distortion profiles when I use any sort of FIR must be a clue to what's going wrong.

If it's not too much trouble could I try your .XML and .BIN files because we know that they work.

Cheers,

Ken
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Re:Re: miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12648

  • devteam
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Ken Tripp wrote:
As much as I appreciate Dave's input it would be nice if others would join the conversation. Hopefully someone that knows what's going on.
<strong> DevTeam for one</strong>.
Just quick note to start saying, we're happy to help! Just note that this thread was just started over the week end(less than 2working daus), we just go through them over time chronologically. Thanks for your patience. :-) There is already some very valuable input by Dave so we all try to help.
Also note that rePhase is a 3rd party freeware completely out of our control so possible that something else is ongoing here that we just can't ignore? Patience in figuring it out helps. :-) There is a forum dedicated to rephase. Maybe something we need to investigate with him. We "believe" that Thomas (Pos) tested the 96k feature on rephase but not 100% sure.

So let's try to see how we can help:
- You asked earlier on for documentation for rephase + miniSHARC. We did put something here together a while ago. Did you read it already? www.minidsp.com/applications/advanced-tools/rephase-fir-tool
- Sounds like you're doing filter linearization (i.e. importing a measurement from a 3rd party software). Right?
1) Can you please send your xml configuration to us via Email? please zip first. Thanks.
2) I'm guessing that you guys have tried a complete factory restore to default and start from scratch a configuration (i..e Do NOT load the earlier configuration from File-Load configuration). Being as simple as a that, I'd guess that it shouldn't be too hard to do.

Once we get a starting point, we can do the similar tests to what Dave is doing but using exactly the files that it loaded inside the DSP.

DevTeam
miniDSP, building a DSP community one board at a time.
Last Edit: 6 years 4 months ago by devteam. Reason: wrong Hyperlink
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Re:Re: miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12649

  • Ken Tripp
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devteam wrote:
Just quick note to start saying, we're happy to help! Just note that this thread was just started over the week end(less than 2working daus), we just go through them over time chronologically. Thanks for your patience. :-) There is already some very valuable input by Dave so we all try to help.
Also note that rePhase is a 3rd party freeware completely out of our control so possible that something else is ongoing here that we just can't ignore? Patience in figuring it out helps. :-) There is a forum dedicated to rephase. Maybe something we need to investigate with him. We "believe" that Thomas (Pos) tested the 96k feature on rephase but not 100% sure.

So let's try to see how we can help:
- You asked earlier on for documentation for rephase + miniSHARC. We did put something here together a while ago. Did you read it already? www.minidsp.com/applications/advanced-tools/rephase-fir-tool

Yes read that but it doesn't really cover creating a multi way active crossover and the only info on loading the rePhase file into the plugin is this...

"8: Load the impulse response file into the OpenDRC 2x2 or miniSHARC 4x8 plugin"

"The impulse responses can now be loaded into the OpenDRC or miniSHARC "

Not exactly helpful.
devteam wrote:
- Sounds like you're doing filter linearization (i.e. importing a measurement from a 3rd party software). Right?

Yes but also had a crack at creating linear phase filters from scratch.
devteam wrote:
1) Can you please send your xml configuration to us via Email? please zip first. Thanks.

Shall do, will also include the one FIR file for channel 3.
devteam wrote:
2) I'm guessing that you guys have tried a complete factory restore to default and start from scratch a configuration (i..e Do NOT load the earlier configuration from File-Load configuration). Being as simple as a that, I'd guess that it shouldn't be too hard to do.

Pretty sure I've done that but by accident after swapping to the 48k plugin and then back to 96k.
devteam wrote:
Once we get a starting point, we can do the similar tests to what Dave is doing but using exactly the files that it loaded inside the DSP.

DevTeam

Sounds good.
Last Edit: 6 years 4 months ago by Ken Tripp.
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Re:Re: miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12653

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@ Ken,

Will wait for your file but here is a quick test as we may be offline.

You might want to see if bypassing the unused FIR filter banks (i.e. those without FIR loaded) would solve your problem. We did see a bug on one other configuration (Stefan) where MIPS was somehow higher and caused the noise. Bypassing the FIR unused banks solved the problem.

Keep us updated.
Devteam
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Re:Re: miniSHARC + rePhase 6 years 4 months ago #12670

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Devteam,

Good info. I can't duplicate this issue on my setup, but I must not have exactly the same setup conditions Stefan and Ken are exercising. Interesting.

Dave.
Last Edit: 6 years 4 months ago by dreite.
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