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TOPIC: 'Convert' 44.1 KHz FIR coefficients to 48 KHz?

'Convert' 44.1 KHz FIR coefficients to 48 KHz? 1 year 2 months ago #38258

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For the fun of it, here is a rephase settings file for the left hear correction:
rePhase settings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==
It uses 23 minimum-phase EQ points and implies no latency
It also avoids UHF boost and very sharp Qs.
You can load it into rephase (copy into clipboard then use the "load from clipboard" functionality) and generate the FIR in bin format (just click the "generate" button). That way you can test it in your openDRC.

Here is a magnitude and impulse comparison with the original in red:

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download the last version of rephase here: rephase.org
Last Edit: 1 year 2 months ago by pos.
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'Convert' 44.1 KHz FIR coefficients to 48 KHz? 1 year 2 months ago #38261

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Thank you so much! I didn't realize those broadened Qs would still be so close to the original response. That definitely looks great to me.

Unfortunately I seem to be having trouble loading the data into rePhase -- I get an error that says "unsupported format version 'F1.08'". I've tried rePhase v. 1.3.0, 1.2.0, and 1.1.1. The earlier version download links don't appear to work at SourceForge anymore and I'm not seeing any other download locations for previous versions. I doubt there's any tinkering I'd want to do (let alone even know how to do) so if you could attach the .bin file here (in 48KHz SR of course) that seems like an easy solution.

If this works in OpenDRC then I'd certainly be interested in getting it for the original right channel too (the "right_fir_edited.txt" from the original attachments). :)
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'Convert' 44.1 KHz FIR coefficients to 48 KHz? 1 year 2 months ago #38264

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Oops, my bad! It was generated with the 1.4.0 development version... :o
I edited my last post so that the settings load on rephase1.3.0

It is definitely better for you to keep the settings as a rephase file instead of a bin file, because that way you can generate the impulse in any format (wav, txt, etc.) or sampling rate, change the number of taps and centering, convert between minimum-phase and linear-phase EQs (for test purpose), tweaks or add additional EQs, etc.
download the last version of rephase here: rephase.org
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'Convert' 44.1 KHz FIR coefficients to 48 KHz? 1 year 2 months ago #38265

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It works perfectly! :D The FR graph looks right, it sounds right, and no more latency. If you could give me the rePhase import info for the original right channel too, I'll be good to go. PM me your PayPal address too I can send you a small donation for taking the time to do this for me. :)
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'Convert' 44.1 KHz FIR coefficients to 48 KHz? 1 year 2 months ago #38267

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Ooooooh - new rePhase v1.4.0 version in development with more features...! Now I'm excited!!!!!!!! :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

eg.
When using "Tools" > "Order by ascending frequency", it only re-orders the 17 current filter sliders of just one single bank.
Could you include a new option to "Order ALL 16 banks by ascending frequency" please?

ie. I'm not saying "repeat the same job re-ordering each single bank's contents, repeat 16 times over for every bank because I'm too lazy to press the button 16 times myself" what I'm saying is "re-order all the current sliders across all banks, possibly up to 17 sliders x 16 banks each = 272 filters max, so that all 272 filters are in ascending frequency order, starting with lowest bass freq first at beginning of bank 01 and highest treble last at end of bank 16. "

That would be a very big help - because you typically start off making course EQ changes in bank 01, and work down to finer smaller adjustments going into new banks 02, 03, 04 etc. , till really tiny adjustments by bank 14, 15, 16, etc. but then when re-tweaking and fine-tuning again, looking for the sliders in a certain freq range, those nearest neighbour freq centres are spread out all over the place between numerous different banks, and you're hunting through all 16 banks to find them. even if you re-order each individual bank.
I've used a workaround solution to re-order all 16 banks by manually saving each of 16 banks EQ settings as text file and manually edit those in Notepad to extract the numerical values, which I can then import into a spreadsheet program to automatically re-order them and the export the ordered numbers back into Notepad and re-edit the text format back to rePhase EQ settings format with headers and footers in the correct places, splitting into 16 groups of 17 filters as needed and re-import those text files loading as EQ settings again for each of 16 banks back into rePhase.
I've done this successfully a few times now, but it's very long tedious manual process!!!! Plus danger of user error messing up something.
If there was an included automatic tool to do this across all 16 banks it would be really helpful. Please, please, please. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Last Edit: 1 year 2 months ago by Richard.
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'Convert' 44.1 KHz FIR coefficients to 48 KHz? 1 year 2 months ago #38269

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Hello Richard,
Yes it is in the work, and should include some features you suggested :)
download the last version of rephase here: rephase.org
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'Convert' 44.1 KHz FIR coefficients to 48 KHz? 1 year 2 months ago #38270

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markbrown1685 wrote:
It works perfectly! :D The FR graph looks right, it sounds right, and no more latency. If you could give me the rePhase import info for the original right channel too, I'll be good to go. PM me your PayPal address too I can send you a small donation for taking the time to do this for me. :)
Good :)
I will try to implment the right hear correction when time permits.
The process is to import the frequency response of your correction as a measurement, invert it in rephase in the measurement menu, and then manually set and adjust EQ points to flatten it.
download the last version of rephase here: rephase.org
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'Convert' 44.1 KHz FIR coefficients to 48 KHz? 1 year 2 months ago #38411

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Here is the left correction again (few minor corrections and 1 sample delay) :
rePhase settings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And the right one:
rePhase settings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The right correction required more work :pinch:
Delay is now 1 sample for both corrections to increase precision. It can be set to 0 if it is a problem.

Here are the response comparisons (red=original, blue=rephase).
left:


right:

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download the last version of rephase here: rephase.org
Last Edit: 1 year 2 months ago by pos.
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'Convert' 44.1 KHz FIR coefficients to 48 KHz? 1 year 2 months ago #38452

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Such a great effort from "Pos" on this conversion. Great seeing rephase in action! :-)

@ markbrown1685
So how does it sound in the end? :-)

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MiniDSP, building a DIY DSP community one board at a time.
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'Convert' 44.1 KHz FIR coefficients to 48 KHz? 1 year 1 month ago #38482

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Thank you so much!!! It sounds fantastic and works exactly how I needed it to! You are incredibly awesome! :)
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'Convert' 44.1 KHz FIR coefficients to 48 KHz? 7 months 4 weeks ago #41385

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Hi, everybody! Sorry to revive this topic, but this seems exactly what I intend to do and need to do to get it done.

I'm using sonarworks but all the delay / on-off routine is not very handy. My idea is to route out a digital signal from my UA Apollo Route to a OpenDRC box, process it (keeping the phase linearity) and route it back to the Apollo digitally correct and output it to my monitors.
My idea to keep it all digital is just to use the Apollo Converters which I know are great, but if you guys say to me that OpenDRC has better or equally good converters than I could consider another routing.

I have the Sonarworks curve (which is in 44.1khz as this is the software measurement standard) and I willing to by a OpenDRC box (need a help here to decide the best setup) to migrate to a out of the box correction.

Could you guys please help me up?

Thanks,

Bernardo
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'Convert' 44.1 KHz FIR coefficients to 48 KHz? 7 months 3 weeks ago #41441

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Hi Bernardo,
Assuming you're talking stereo (not multichannel work) then the OpenDRC-DI is probably the box you're looking at, because it has the most powerful convolution processing available (6144 taps per channel for your FIR filters) anywhere on the market, if that's your main criteria for choosing the best standalone convolution hardware box.

The OpenDRC-DI is digital in / digital out only. That's not only your best choice sonically and technically, but is actually your only choice, because I think, unfortunately, MiniDSP have discontinued the other alternative models in the same series which offered digital in / analogue out (which was the OpenDRC-DA) and also analogue in / analogue out (which was the OpenDRC-AN.) So I'm afraid your question regarding the sound quality of the OpenDRC built-in D/A converters is a moot point now anyway!

I suppose if you contacted MiniDSP and asked, there's a small chance they might still have some remaining stock of the digital in / analogue out DA-FP board, and maybe you could purchase the current OpenDRC-DI digital model plus one DA-FP output board and retrofit that in yourself (it's easy to swap 5 minutes with a screwdriver) if you really, really wanted to get that D to A configuration instead.

Regarding its sound quality... The DA-FP converter board used to retail for under £50, so it's probably not quite in the same high-end league (sound quality wise) as an expensive outboard converter like your Universal Audio Apollo Classic or whatever, but for the record, (I own a few DA-FP myself) it sounds pretty reasonable and detailed with just two technical caveats: First, the max D/A output level from the XLRs is only 2.0VRMS (= +8.23dBu) which is considerably lower level than most professional studio converters which might typically reach +22dBu or more, so if you're feeding your power amps, you'll really notice this drop in level and require a volume boost to compensate for it. Secondly, the DA-FP board has a polarity inversion error where the analogue output coming from both XLR outputs is flipped to opposite polarity (ie. pin 3 hot rather than the industry wide convention of pin 2 hot) and thus also with respect to the digital inputs conventional polarity. This can easily be compensated for by applying the "Invert" button within the OpenDRC plugin software, or indeed MiniDSP have now released a firmware update to fix that particular problem, so you might never even know it existed at all.

Here's the main thing to remember with all OpenDRC boxes (including the OpenDRC-DI digital only version you'll probably be buying) is that they ALWAYS and ONLY run from their internal 48kHz crystal clock(!), and cannot synchronise to any external incoming digital source clock (not just because there's no BNC wordclock input) but I mean they cannot lock / chase sync to your incoming AES/EBU or S/PDIF optical or coaxial source, because everything coming in always goes through the internal asynchronous Sample Rate Converter, which is drawing it's master clocking from its internal fixed 48kHz crystal. You can feed it with all your 44.1kHz or 48kHz or 88.2kHz or 96kHz or 176.4kHz or 192kHz digital sources (in fact it happily accepts any digital source from 20kHz to 216kHz rate on paper) but it will always ignores those incoming clock rates and re-clocks everything internally as a realtime stream through its internal asynchronous S.R.C. which time-stamps the internal master 48kHz crystal clock rate onto the (re-interpolated) output samples and always forces that 48kHz crystal to be the new master clock for everything else downstream of there. It keeps no clock reference to the timing of the incoming digital source, even with 48kHz source material, so it will never be sample accurate sync with your original input source, and the output clocking (not the audio) is liable to drift out of sync with your input source clock over the passing of time, which it demonstrably does. If you're clever with your signal flow, (in real time use, or slaving the input clock to the digital output from the OpenDRC box) this doesn't necessarily need to be a problem, and there is no obvious audible loss of sound quality in normal use, unless you set up an extreme comparison test against a purist source of ultra-low intrinsic jitter.

If that all makes sense, and you understand all about asynchronous SRC and clocking priority, then you should get along totally okay using the OpenDRC-DI, the same as most other digital DSP processors and D/A converters which use asynchronous SRC these days they are commonplace, but if you're uncertain about taking a digital loop from the UA Apollo through the OpenDRC-DI box and back digitally, then you might want to investigate exactly what's going on with your clocking signal flow, to see whether this restriction will scupper your plans. I don't know the Apollo unit myself, so I couldn't tell you without studying the relevant manual.

Otherwise, yes, it seems like you should ask Pos nicely if he's willing to convert your 44.1kHz Sonarworks filters into 48kHz equivalents once again... and that could be the solution you seek to make it work on OpenDRC.
Last Edit: 7 months 3 weeks ago by Richard.
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'Convert' 44.1 KHz FIR coefficients to 48 KHz? 3 months 4 days ago #43259

  • denver8me4dinner
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What a fun thread.
Thanks for the reading enjoyment everyone

If I may, I measure headphones all the time.
I put my normal calibrated mic tip touching the screen (the speaker grille) I cup my hand over it to simulate a ear. It works amazingly well.

I treat everything as minimum phase, the measurements are a slam dunk as there’s no delay in the measurements and the result is excellent.

I follow the same rules as I would with any speaker like Pos mentions like wider Qs and ignoring certain things in the response.

Guys should give it a go. The umik1 is 80$ and works excellent.

Chao
Andrew
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