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TOPIC: SD Card usage on miniShark

SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19518

  • DorinD
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Dear forum members,

As it is my experience till now on this community, I have no great expectations from miniDSP staff members to provide any real, valuable input to us, the paying people. They benefit from our experiments --which cost us money and time-- and they offer in exchange nothing. We have to reverse engineer everything, even the info supose to be available after we pay their product.

An example is this SD Card.feature which they advert as enableing miniShark to load configuration even without a computer. No applicatin paper, no nothing. What file system should I use to format it, what is the procedure to load configurations on it etc.?

Is anybody able to add some light into the topic? I would be grateful and ready to share my findings.

Till now I tried inserting a SD card as it was bough --formatted with FAT32-- but nothing was written on it yet, even if I made changes and force synchronization. Eventualy I can try formatting with FAT16, but all is pretty hard to do on a almost finished project of mine.

I am looking forward to get any first hand experience from you, thank you in advance.

Best regards,
Dorin
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SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19547

  • TonyMan
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Hello Dorin,

It's always going to be hard to please everybody, yet in this community, we do our best to answer a lot of daily tech support questions (more than 60), we support external forums (financially and via giveaways), we sponsor events by giving free gears, we sponsor university students... So your comments (i.e. we're expecting our customer to do experiments and we offer nothing in exchange) seem quite one sided, odd to hear knowing all the neat projects our customers keep building and quite hurtful to say the least for the whole team. If you're referring to the one incident you had with our tech support staff with your recent tech support ticket(i.e. I actually read that email myself), I think that maybe saying they are A* hole wouldn't help ?
All this even though we did answer your inquiry by providing a drawing of how to modify the board, a method of how to pull the pin to have dual power supply.. Yet it seems that you're not going to be able to get over it as I can read from the tone of this email which I think will be an issue to move forward. I understand that emails/forums can be frustrating but there ought to be a line not to cross I think. I'm not claiming we're perfect, but I hope that we can all be gentlemen...

So in the spirit of keeping this community happy, in the spirit of respecting our forum rules (www.minidsp.com/forum/forum-rules), I'd really appreciate that we please stay on topic, and all work together rather than against. Can you please agree to this? Thanks. :-)

Anyway, let's put this behind, we're happy to help!
In answer to your question, the SD card feature isn't supported on the miniSHARC 4x8 software I'm afraid. It works fine on the hardware as we use it for some of our OEM customers (hence the reason it's on the datasheet being an OEM module for quite few customers). I could see how we could schedule to build that feature in the current 4x8 plug-in.

Tony ROUGET, MD @ miniDSP
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SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19554

  • DorinD
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Hello Tony,

Thank you for the effort to respond to my question and sign your message. I would also make my part and stay on topic even if I have my arguments why tone was how it was.

That's a news that SD card feature is not supported! I would like knowing that before seeing my system does not keep settings more than a day if un-powered. So, I am forced to use a computer every time to refresh those settings. It's a limitation indeed for some scenarios, quite disappointing.

I am left to look forward to see this SD card feature enabled as advertised in your datasheets and manuals.

Best regards,
Dorin
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SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19555

  • mr-marlen
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DorinD wrote:
I would like knowing that before seeing my system does not keep settings more than a day if un-powered. So, I am forced to use a computer every time to refresh those settings. It's a limitation indeed for some scenarios, quite disappointing.
I have the same problem. MiniSHARC didn't save configuration. I was using it for some days only with FIR correction (other filters bypass). But sometimes it doesn't work until i start plugin and update config. Sometimes it is working, but not correctly with no phase correction. So if i am not at home, my wife can't listen to the music :(.
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SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19558

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If you left it powered all the time the configuration stays. But if you shut it down it is not sure how much time will still keep it. Mine keeps the configuration 20 hours or so. After that time it will loose some, maybe one channel, but not all config. I think it depends on the temperature, humidity in the air etc.
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SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19559

  • hsmeets
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@dorin, @mr-marlin,

That 'sounds' like a defective minisharc (EEprom?), never experienced this even when it was powered down over weeks.
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SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19564

  • dreite
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Calling the support folks ***holes. Yeah, that'll work. :)

It seems you have an issue with your miniSHARC board and/or procedure. I repowered my miniSHARC board the other day after being unpowered for a couple of months and the preset configurations are still there.

Dave.
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SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19586

  • devteam
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Dear Both,

Something is definitely not right here indeed else we'd have lots of people having exactly the same issue knowing DDRC/OpenDRC/miniSHARC run exactly the same firmware. Before we go further, I just want to make sure that you're both running the latest firmware + hardware? If you're unsure, please go to your user downloads and do that step first. THanks.
a) Mr-marlem: we can't find a record of your purchase under your name, so no idea how old is the board and is it running the latest firmware. Please double check.
b) Dorin, sounds like your unit is newer (we're guessing it's the 03/2015 purchase?). If so it's running the latest firmware.

A while ago, we did see in a heavily DIY unit that it would sometime loose configuration after the unit being "zapped" by external ESD or external boards. I wonder if that's maybe what we're seeing here so just trying to confirm you've got correct grounding on your setup.

DevTeam
MiniDSP, building a DIY DSP community one board at a time.
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SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19591

  • mr-marlen
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devteam wrote:
Dear Both,
a) Mr-marlem: we can't find a record of your purchase under your name, so no idea how old is the board and is it running the latest firmware. Please double check.

A while ago, we did see in a heavily DIY unit that it would sometime loose configuration after the unit being "zapped" by external ESD or external boards. I wonder if that's maybe what we're seeing here so just trying to confirm you've got correct grounding on your setup.

DevTeam
I have bought it 01/26/2015 from audiophonics.fr. My 1st step was updating firmware from user downloads.
Maybe i have such problem due to clock. If you tell more about clock using by miniSHARC on board it will be helpfull.
I don't want to use my DAC with digital noisy ground so i decided to isolate miniSHARC from DAC board and put generator on DAC side. Otherwise due to isolation clock jitter will be more. So there is no generator on miniSHARC board. I know i am already have no warranty but that's not a problem. Generator on SHARC board was with on/off function. Is this function was using by SHARC? I think only for reconfiguration of I2S modes or there is something else?
For this moment power on/off for DAC with clock generator and for miniSHARC board accepting simultaneously.
Also miniSHARC working in slave mode I2S IN and I2S OUT so when my PC off, there is no LRCK, BCK signals from Amanero which is powerd from PC.
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SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19594

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@ Mr marlem,

Ok, here is an example where we're not exactly sure of the customization done and the cause of no audio might be related.. :-)
What do you mean by "generator"? Do you mean MCLK? If so how did you provide zero MCLK to the miniSHARC?
Not sure what you mean by "generator on SHARC board was with on/off function"

DIYing to that level (knowing the firmware and DSP wouldn't boot correctly without a proper sequencing of clocks and MCLK being the basis to derive any operation of the DSP) could easily be the reason for no audio, loosing the configuration.

The second concept (no LRCLK/SCLK provided and yet DSP is working in slave mode) is a bit confusing. How is the unit supposed to get any signal by then? Maybe missing some information. :-)

DevTeam
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SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19597

  • mr-marlen
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@@What do you mean by "generator"? Do you mean [email protected]@
Yes i mean MCLK generator 24,576 MHz. I desolder MCLK gen from miniSHARC board.
@@If so how did you provide zero MCLK to the [email protected]@
What do you meaning about zero MCLK? I am providing clock from MCLK gen with 24,576 MHz which is staying on DAC board through ADUM1401 (Galvanic ISOL) to pad contact of gen on Sharc board.
Also MCLK from ADUM going to the Amanero board.
Amanero working in slave mode, so it is applying external MCLK clock from ADUM1401 (DAC gen) and generating BCLK, LRCLK to i2s in/out of Sharc. When Amanero in off state there is no BCLK and LRCLK.
To provide BCLK and LRCLK from I2S in to I2S out there is physical connection on SHARC board between I2S BCLK In - Out; I2S LRCLK In - Out. In another words Amanero generates BCLK and LRCLK for miniSHARC I2S IN and miniSHARC I2S Out but only after Amanero powerd on from PC.
System also working in I2S input slave; I2S out master. For this i need to cut physical connection between BCLK and LRCLK I2S in-out on J2 I2S I/O
Expansion port miniSHARC board. Maybe in such mode, when BCLK and LRCLK is always on I2S out problem will dissapear. I din't test it yet.

@@Not sure what you mean by "generator on SHARC board was with on/off function"

DIYing to that level (knowing the firmware and DSP wouldn't boot correctly without a proper sequencing of clocks and MCLK being the basis to derive any operation of the DSP) could easily be the reason for no audio, loosing the [email protected]@
I can always solder back SHARC generator but i don't want to use gen far from DAC and through adum1401 100%. Only if i make FIFO on DAC side but i think there is more easy way.
System for this moment working and saving configs for little time.
What if i make device which will emulate high impedance on MCLK pad on SHARC board like with using tri/state pin?
Ups...I am already have such device - ADUM1401. I need to connect miniSHARC controlling generator pin (tri/state pin1 on gen) to VOD of ADUM1401 and test it :).
But for now i have no time for tests. In the near future.
If you want i can make a block diagram of my project.
Last Edit: 4 years 3 months ago by mr-marlen.
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SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19598

  • DorinD
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Thank you all,
Just to be clear, my miniShark is pretty new (March 2015), no intervention of any kind and I am running the application I have into my user downloads section (not remembering exctly, but something with 2.xx). Tonight I will check versions out and also put a picture of the thing to demonstrate how it is connected and housed in the box.
Regards,
Dorin

Later edit:
miniSHARC 4x8 48kHz version 1.7. As you can see, the system is not grounded (use a bipolar cable and the power button disconnects both wires) but the case is mostly metallic (Hammond). The switched power supply is pretty close but at least is metallic cased. The autoformers don't capture noise and seems like it is the most silent audio system I have ever experienced to date.

Do you suggest to change the power cord three core and ground everything?
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Last Edit: 4 years 3 months ago by DorinD.
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SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19689

  • devteam
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@ Mr Marlen,

You're obviously quite outside our setup here with your own MCLK (something nothing in the DSP design was ever envisioned). Most likely that it's related here since as mentioned above we don't have that similar issue with all the OpenDRC/miniSHARC out there. I'm afraid that this is the kind of DIY that is outside of our support. You'd be basically asking our engineers to debug what the board wasn't designed for.. :-) Best that you stick to using our own MCLK. If you don't like our MCLK (as you suggest), then maybe use a DAC that doesn't need it (Eg.. some of the ESS labs). Just a thought.

@ Dorin,

Nice setup. I wonder if it's indeed some sort of grounding issue on that custom enclosure. Is the chassis grounded? (i.e. earthed). We can't see from that angle..

DevTeam
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SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19693

  • mr-marlen
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@@You'd be basically asking our engineers to debug what the board wasn't designed for.. :-)@@
I did not ask anyone to debug my design. In the near future i will check out the problem myself. I was just said that for the moment I have a similar problem as DorinD.
@then maybe use a DAC that doesn't need it (Eg.. some of the ESS labs). Just a [email protected]
Which recovers MCLK from LRCK/BCK which generated by miniSHARC using his own MCLK. Great solution :).
One more time. I don't want to have noisy digital ground on my DAC board. Also i don't want to have big jitter.
For this reasons i am using galvanic isolation and MCLK on DAC board. There is no difference for DSP to accept MCLK from gen or from ADUM1401 (if clock signal have normal levels). Most of sigma-delta DAC have internal reclock which will remove a time shift.
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SD Card usage on miniShark 4 years 3 months ago #19696

  • curryman
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mr-marlen wrote:
@then maybe use a DAC that doesn't need it (Eg.. some of the ESS labs). Just a [email protected]
Which recovers MCLK from LRCK/BCK which generated by miniSHARC using his own MCLK. Great solution :).

The ESS DACs do not recover MCLK from BCK but perform a resampling using the local (low jitter) clock if used in asynchronous mode. And this resampling works very well. Therefore DevTeams suggestion makes sense. No need to be sarcastic ;-)
Guess you are aware that those isolators may also introduce some jitter (up to 1ns compared to 1ps of a good XO). No specs available for the ADUM though. Having said that I think that isolation can make sense if you have your grounding scheme well done. But I think in case of connecting several third party hardware you'd better use two master clocks and either reclock or resample for lowest jitter .

kind regards, Daniel
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