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TOPIC: NanoAVR DL & NanoAVR HD for BM & swap channels

NanoAVR DL & NanoAVR HD for BM & swap channels 6 months 2 weeks ago #41290

  • ARNiTECT
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I'm making some changes to my surround setup.

I have a NanoAVR DL and NanoAVR HD and I would like to set these up to optimise the various scenarios in our family room for 5.1 and 7.1 surround.

I would like to be able to select a combination of filters on the two NanoAVRs to accommodate combinations of the following:

2 seating positions:
  • Typical sofa, at back of room for multiple listeners (sides at 70°, rears at 100°)
  • Optimal chair, forward of sofa for single listener (sides at 90°, rears at 135°)

2 speaker layouts:
  • Typical room friendly, Front LCR speakers against back wall, grills on
  • Optimal sound, Front LCR speakers pulled out into room, grills off

2 routing situations
  • 5.1, Surround channels to Rear speakers, Side speakers not used
  • 7.1, Surround channels to Side speakers, Rear channels to Rear speakers

Proposed chain for surround:
  • Sources
  • HDMI Switch
  • CA CXUHD – for processing HDMI to LPCM
  • NanoAVR HD – for BM and routing matrix
  • NanoAVR DL – For fine tuning room EQ
  • Audiolab 8200AP – multichannel preamp (BM etc off)
  • Power amps

The added difficulty is that during the Dirac sweep tests, I currently need the ‘NanoAVR HD’ between the 8200AP and the ‘NanoAVR DL’ to deal with a bug in my 8200AP that silences the 8 channel tests (doesn’t affect normal use). I haven’t tried setting up Dirac with the NanoAVRs the other way round yet.

Proposed NanoAVR Filter setup:
  • 8200AP, Turn off the BM etc
  • NanoAVR HD (downstream from DL, if required), all filters off
  • NanoAVR DL, run the sweep tests on all 8 channels for each of the seating positions and speaker layouts:
    • Filter 1: Typical Sofa & Typical Speaker layout
    • Filter 2: Typical Sofa & Optimal Speaker layout
    • Filter 3: Optimal Chair & Optimal Speaker layout
    • Filter 4: Spare
  • NanoAVR HD (moved upstream from DL), bass manage the 8 channels for each of the seating positions and speaker layouts and route the surround channels to the sides or rears:
    • Filter 1: Typical Sofa & Typical Speaker layout, with 5.1 routing
    • Filter 2: Typical Sofa & Optimal Speaker layout, with 5.1 routing
    • Filter 3: Typical Sofa & Optimal Speaker layout, with 7.1 routing
    • Filter 4: Optimal Chair & Optimal Speaker layout, with 7.1 routing

I would very much welcome any comments on this setup!
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NanoAVR DL & NanoAVR HD for BM & swap channels 6 months 2 weeks ago #41292

  • john.reekie
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Crikey. Will have to chew on that.

You're sure it's the 8200 causing the issue with the test sweeps, and not lack of a video signal into the nanoAVR DL?
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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NanoAVR DL & NanoAVR HD for BM & swap channels 6 months 2 weeks ago #41293

  • ARNiTECT
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This is the tip of the iceberg with my complicated setup!

8200AP 'silent detect' issue is discussed on avforums
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NanoAVR DL & NanoAVR HD for BM & swap channels 6 months 2 weeks ago #41294

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Crikey again :blink:

How does the nanoAVR HD solve the problem? I don't see how it "deletes the bug" (as someone posted in that thread).
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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NanoAVR DL & NanoAVR HD for BM & swap channels 6 months 2 weeks ago #41296

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a mystery to me; it just works, so I'm happy
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NanoAVR DL & NanoAVR HD for BM & swap channels 6 months 2 weeks ago #41298

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Some thoughts... bear in mind I haven't necessarily done all these myself (I have a 5.1 system)

I'm not sure why you have separate presets in the HD for 5.1 and 7.1. If you have a 7.1 setup and there's no rear surround content, they will just be silent.

I think it would be worth considering just having the same preset number for each situation on both the HD and DL. Otherwise things will get confusing (especially if you are trying to use a remote to change it).

Speaking of remotes, consider the volume control situation. Presumably you will do it in the 8200, but you will want to prevent changes in the nanoAVRs.

I suppose, finally, to me the great thing about the nanoAVR DL is how it gets you consistent timbre all round even with "challenging" speaker placements. I suppose therefore my thinking is it would be worth spending some significant time optimizing your "typical" speaker/sofa layout before having to physically move speakers and furniture. Maybe you don't really need so many different filter sets. Then again perhaps you've already tried it.

Not sure if that was the types of comments you were looking for - ?
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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NanoAVR DL & NanoAVR HD for BM & swap channels 6 months 2 weeks ago #41299

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Oh, one more thing :) I suggest leave the nanoAVRs in the order you have them for calibration anyway. Set up the BM in the HD first then do your DL calibration. Seriously, try it ;)
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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NanoAVR DL & NanoAVR HD for BM & swap channels 6 months 2 weeks ago #41304

  • ARNiTECT
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Thanks for responding!
john.reekie wrote:
Some thoughts... bear in mind I haven't necessarily done all these myself (I have a 5.1 system)
I'm not sure why you have separate presets in the HD for 5.1 and 7.1. If you have a 7.1 setup and there's no rear surround content, they will just be silent.
I think it would be worth considering just having the same preset number for each situation on both the HD and DL. Otherwise things will get confusing (especially if you are trying to use a remote to change it).
My seating arrangement is restricted, because the sofa must be up against the back wall. The room can accommodate better stand mount speakers (PMC DB1i) to either side of the sofa (100° from centre), and additional channels are forward of this to the side walls (70° from centre). These additional channels are less capable smaller flat wall mounted speakers (KEF T101), which is all the room can accommodate.
Speaking of remotes, consider the volume control situation. Presumably you will do it in the 8200, but you will want to prevent changes in the nanoAVRs.
My Harmony Remote has this all figured out, the 8200AP adjusts volume, the NanoAVRs stay at max (but can be adjusted from the remote if required)
I suppose, finally, to me the great thing about the nanoAVR DL is how it gets you consistent timbre all round even with "challenging" speaker placements. I suppose therefore my thinking is it would be worth spending some significant time optimizing your "typical" speaker/sofa layout before having to physically move speakers and furniture. Maybe you don't really need so many different filter sets. Then again perhaps you've already tried it.
The room is small at 5x4.5m and the LR speakers (PMC Twenty5 26) need to be pushed back typically so people don't walk into them, and the kids have more room to play lego. The pushed back position isn't that bad, but it it is noticably better brought forward.
Not sure if that was the types of comments you were looking for - ?
All helpful comments!
Oh, one more thing :) I suggest leave the nanoAVRs in the order you have them for calibration anyway. Set up the BM in the HD first then do your DL calibration. Seriously, try it ;)
I’m not sure if this would work with the routing requirements and if it would require more presets than are available.
Last Edit: 6 months 2 weeks ago by ARNiTECT.
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NanoAVR DL & NanoAVR HD for BM & swap channels 6 months 2 weeks ago #41308

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Sounds like you've thought it through :)

I really ought to figure out how to set up a Harmony properly...
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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NanoAVR DL & NanoAVR HD for BM & swap channels 6 months 1 week ago #41310

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I've had another think on swapping round the HD and DL, as it is a simpler setup.

Proposed NanoAVR Filter setup:
  • 8200AP, Turn off the BM (should I adjust the gains to approximately even out the speakers in the surround amp, or leave this to the nanoAVRs?)
  • NanoAVR HD, bass manage the 8 channels and route the surround channels to the sides or rears:
    • Filter 1: 5.1 routing
    • Filter 2: 7.1 routing
    • Filter 3: spare
    • Filter 4: spare
  • NanoAVR DL, run the sweep tests on each of the seating positions and speaker layouts as the HD:
    • Filter 1: Typical Sofa & Typical Speaker layout, with 5.1 routing
    • Filter 2: Typical Sofa & Optimal Speaker layout, with 5.1 routing
    • Filter 3: Typical Sofa & Optimal Speaker layout, with 7.1 routing
    • Filter 4: Optimal Chair & Optimal Speaker layout, with 7.1 routing
Last Edit: 6 months 1 week ago by ARNiTECT.
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NanoAVR DL & NanoAVR HD for BM & swap channels 6 months 6 days ago #41379

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I'm not sure I'm doing this correctly and I would appreciate comments from anyone who has tried something similar.

HDMI Chain for surround:
  • Sources – no bass management or other filters
  • NanoAVR DL – For fine tuning room EQ after everything else complete
  • NanoAVR HD – Routing, PEQ, Delay, BM as described below
  • Audiolab 8200AP – Speakers set to Large, Distances 0m, Gains set to equalise the 8 speaker channels at a central sitting point
  • Power amps – ready

I have spent a while trying to get the best out of the NanoAVR HD using REW and a UMIK-1, as follows:

  1. Routing Matrix works well for 5.1 and 7.1

  2. Measured the speakers from 20-24k Hz and Subwoofer from 10-200 Hz, all from a single central sitting point (sweet spot)

  3. Made filters for each speaker to be as flat as possible around 67dB with a slight roll off in the high frequencies

  4. Made a filter for the subwoofer with a gain set on the back panel to achieve 77dB (from the miniDSP instructions, I was unsure if this is correct, or should I set the gain on the subwoofer back panel to measure the same 67dB as the other speakers and add 10dB in the nanoAVR HD gain for the subwoofer channel?)

  5. Measured the delay (with filters off/flat) from Front Left to all other speakers and added the delay ms into the nanoAVR HD, except for the subwoofer, that doesn't seem to consistently measure the same delay. What I would like to do is leave the distance at 0 and instead align the subwoofer phase with the other speakers (unlikely to be noticeable if 360° out from other speakers), what is the best way of doing this? I can adjust the subwoofer (SVS SB2000) on the back panel from 0-180° and also invert the channel in the nanoAVR HD, so should be able to set it anywhere from 0-360°, preferably around the cross over points of 80Hz. What is the best way of measuring, setting and confirming the phase of the subwoofer to aligned to the other speakers? Can I adjust the phase of all the speakers to meet at around 80Hz?

  6. Not tried yet, but I assume the next phase is setting up the Bass Management. The speakers have varying low end capabilities: I could set them as PMC Twenty5 26 (40Hz), Twenty5 C (60Hz), DB1i (80Hz), Kef T101 (120Hz), or all the PMC at 80Hz and KEF at 120Hz.

  7. Then setup the nanoAVR DL

Am I doing too much in the nanoAVR HD? Should I leave PEQ and Delay to the nanoAVR DL?
I have been trying to absorb this all over the last week, but there is a lot I don't know.
Thank you for any help.
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