TOPIC:

Dave are you reffering to me as a troll? 
Russ

Okay. I have no idea Dave why you think I'm a troll. But I do see where we got off topic of this thread. If you notice it was not me that changed the subject, into how to rearrange my system and drop the dac and preamp. I thank you Ultrasonic for your help and suggestions. I will take my remote ir issue to another thread.

vred wrote:

       Also another problem I am having, I cannot get the ir volume control to work. It says it learns the codes on multiple remotes I've tried, but nothing works except the mute on one. The front panel lights flicker weakly but nothing happens. Isn't this hobby fun?

As you haven't started another thread I'll just ask whether you have a miniDSP remote and if this works OK?

Hi Ultrasonic. I don't think one came with it. So no I don't. Please correct me if I am wrong. And thanks for the help. I have submitted a message thru support about the remote issue, but haven't heard back yet.

vred wrote:

Hi Ultrasonic. I don't think one came with it. So no I don't. Please correct me if I am wrong. And thanks for the help. I have submitted a message thru support about the remote issue, but haven't heard back yet.

A remote probably wasn't automatically included. One wasn't with my 2x4 HD but I ordered one at the same time to go with it. Remotes are included with newer models though (SHD and Flex series).

My bet is if you bought a miniDSP remote it would work fine but hopefully support can help you out with your other remotes. I have seen other threads about the learn function not necessarily always giving the desired results but I'm never tried it myself.

Okay, that sounds very likely. It is odd that it learns the codes (so it says)  and the mute button works, but not volume. This is on 3 or 4 different remotes. Do you know if there is a part of the process I might be missing? I do have ir remote selected in the master volume box. I would think i have done it correctly or the mute button wouldn't work.

vred wrote:

Okay, that sounds very likely. It is odd that it learns the codes (so it says)  and the mute button works, but not volume. This is on 3 or 4 different remotes. Do you know if there is a part of the process I might be missing? I do have ir remote selected in the master volume box. I would think i have done it correctly or the mute button wouldn't work.

Sorry, as I've said it's not something I've tried myself. I can see that if nothing were successfully learnt it might be that say the mute just happened to work anyway.

Alright. I will just wait to here back from support. Thanks

Hello All.  First off, please excuse the length of this post.  If you find yourself going comatose, just move on.  This recounts my recent switch from a 4x10 HD to a Flex 8 and many of the questions and comments in this thread came up for me as I made the transition.  It was not trivial to make the transition between the two units but pretty straightforward, and it is possible without losing any functionality, even when you have several use cases.  I’m quite happy with the result and I like the Flex 8 a lot. Like one of the other posters, my 4x10 HD recently got fried in a lightning strike (as did my cable modem, my router, and my laptop...but NONE of my surge protectors, the strike came in through the cable TV cable and propagated through the house's ethernet wiring.  So, apparently it's best to also surge protect where the internet enters your home and not just the power lines...just saying...)


As a result, I had to replace my fried (and at that point discontinued) 4x10 HD with a Flex 8.  I used the 4x10 and now use the Flex 8 as a four-way stereo cross-over (much like the original poster VRED who drives a Linkwitz LX521.4 system) as well as to provide some room EQ.  I was also using the 4x10 to provide a digital output of my vinyl rips so that I could record my vinyl collection to my laptop.  In the transition, I had to manually recreate the 4x10’s 4-way crossover in the Flex 8, but that was easy.  More importantly, I was able to simply load the EQ files created in REW for the 4x10 directly into the Flex 8. (I’ll need to revisit the whole question of EQ on the Flex 8 in the future, but it sure saved some time getting the system back up and running.)


I ran into two of the same issues mentioned in this topic and one additional:  (A) How do I connect my turntable to a Flex 8 that has no analog inputs?  (  How do I connect the High Resolution Lossless stream from Apple Music to the 4x10 or Flex 8?  (At least that was the version of the streaming problem I faced.)  (C) And finally, how do I get the digital signal from the Flex 8 out to my computer since I also wanted to continue recording and cleaning up my 40-50 year old collection of vinyl? 


So here's what I did:


(A)  For the analog input, I took the signal from my old Phillips GA-212 turntable to a Schitt Mani pre-amp.  Nothing new there.  Then I took the RCA analog output from the Mani pre-amp to a Swissonic AD 24/192.  The Swissonic, so far, seems to be a solid A/D converter that provides 24 bit resolution at a fixed 192kHz sampling rate.  The Swissonic provides both Toslink and RCA S\PDIF digital outputs, so either one of those outputs can then be used directly into one of the Flex 8's digital inputs.  (Presumably the Flex 8 then downsamples to its native 96k/24 bit for it's internal processing.)  This has worked out well for me and the Swissonic was not particularly expensive.  (Though shipping from Europe was...)  I don't have any complaints about the sound quality.  It took me a fair amount of research to find a stand-alone ADC that I could just drop into my existing system that had at least the Flex 8's native resolution, so I'm quite happy.  Most of the other options only had up to 48 k sample/sec rate, or they were WAY more than I cared to spend.


(  For connection of my iPad or my iPhone (to get Lossless Hi Res Apple Music) to the Flex 8, my preferred approach is the following:  (1) I bought a Topping D10s DAC.  (Nope, I'm not using its DA converter.  I don't see how a DADA conversion can improve the quality or accuracy of the music.  Just seems to be asking for trouble...)  But the beautiful thing about this particular DAC is that it has two DIGITAL pass-through outputs (Toslink and RCA S\PDIF).  (2) So in principle, you just connect your device through USB audio to the D10s's USB input, and then use one of the D10s's digital outputs into your 4x10 or Flex 8 (it has worked on both devices for me and using both inputs.)  One thing I really like about this solution is that the D10s displays the input sample rate of the music that you are streaming, something neither the 4x10 nor the Flex 8 do (since they only really care about 96/24.)  In practice however, neither the iPhone nor iPad can provide enough power to drive the USB powered D10s.  (3) So you actually need a powered USB hub (I use an Atolla 4 port USB 3.0 Hub) where your device serves as the host and the the D10s is plugged into one of the peripheral ports.   Unfortunately, apparently the hub assumes that the host has its own power and does not charge your device.  An iPad can go for a long time without charging, but to stream for extended periods from my iPhone, I had to buy an Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter, to keep the phone charged up.  (There is a similar device available for my USB-C connected iPad (an HDMI adapter), but it's pricey.)


All of that craziness was strictly necessary for the 4x10, which did not have USB audio.  With the Flex 8 however, I can connect my iPad (and probably my iPhone) directly to the Flex 8 using the appropriate USB cables or adapters.  However, to do this, I have to disconnect the Flex 8 from my laptop and connect to my iPad and I'm too impatient to be bothered with that (and I also lose the sampling rate display of the D10s.)  So all in all, I prefer the D10s approach.


I will say that the direct Hi Res Lossless stream from Apple is so good that I rarely play vinyl or my recorded stuffnow.  Scandalous, I know.  (That is, unless the music has been re-mastered...don't get me started on that...)  Also, I'm pretty sure that none of the high resolution Bluetooth formats supported by the Flex 8 are available from Apple Music.  So a wired connection appears necessary to get the highest resolution, lossless output.


(C)  For the digital output from the Flex 8... well, the Flex 8 has no provision for that, so I had to totally rethink that.  Previously with my 4x10, I bought a Hifime UR 23 S\PDIF Optical to USB Converter.  So I connected the Toslink output on the 4x10 to the Toslink input on the Hifime UR 23 and then connected the USB output on the Hifime to an available USB port on my laptop.  This worked wonderfully and I was able to record my vinyl in the 4x10’s native 96k/24 format. For the Flex 8 though, with no digital outputs, I had to pull the digital signal from upstream of the Flex 8.  So I connected the Toslink output of the Swissonic AD 24/192 to the Toslink input of the Hifime UR 23, reserving the Swissonic’s RCA S\PDIF output to feed the Flex 8.  Great idea, but it did not work because the Hifime was limited to a 96k sampling rate and the Swissonic outputs at a fixed 192k rate.  So I purchased a Hifime S2 Digi, a similar device with up to 192k\32 bit capabilities.  Note that these two devices are just digital converters, they operate only in the digital domain, so hopefully do not distort the signal.  Hooking the Swissonic’s Toslink output to the Hifime S2 Toslink input and then its USB output to an available USB port on my laptop worked well.  I will say though, that the Hifime S2 seems noisier (at least mine does) than the UR 23, but by trial and error, I found a USB port where noise was essentially eliminated and I’m happy with the results.
 Interestingly, if you hook the Topping D10s’s Toslink passthrough output to the Toslink input of the Hifime S2, and then on to your computer, you can directly record a digital stream.  (From, for example, Apple Music, though I’m not suggesting that you should… )  I have used that capability to compare streamed versions to albums that I’ve recorded, especially if the streamed version sounds flat or too loud.  (And where invariably, remastering has crushed the life out of the recording through compression.)  A case in point is Avril Lavigne’s Sk8er Boi where both the original and a remastered version are available on Apple Music.  The original has some truly incredible low frequency effects if your system can render them.  In the remaster, those LFEs are dialed way way down and it’s incredibly disappointing.  In such a case, recording the original may be prudent just in case the remaster becomes the only version available in the future. 
 Now I just have to figure out how to implement the Flex 8's FIR filters! Joe

A quick update to Ultrasonic, and any other interested party. I was able to get the remote control to work using a Logitech programable remote. The codes for Minidsp units are available from logitech's website. 
       And as for AustinJoeC, thats a fairly extensive system you put together. All I need now to go to a Flex 8 is an analog to digital converter for my phono. Btw Joe can you tell any sound quality improvement with the Flex 8 aver the 4x10?

vred wrote:

A quick update to Ultrasonic, and any other interested party. I was able to get the remote control to work using a Logitech programable remote. The codes for Minidsp units are available from logitech's website. 
       And as for AustinJoeC, thats a fairly extensive system you put together. All I need now to go to a Flex 8 is an analog to digital converter for my phono. Btw Joe can you tell any sound quality improvement with the Flex 8 aver the 4x10?
 

FYI:  I also had issues with the MiniDSP remote and the 4x10 HD.  The remote would only Mute or Volume up/down.  None of the other buttons responded.  This was the 2nd, not first generation remote.  Perhaps the first gen worked better on the 4x10.  The second gen remote works perfectly with the Flex 8, and now I have two remotes!

Vred, if all you now need is an ADC, it think the Swissonic I referenced in my post will fit the bill nicely, it has for me.

As regards an improvement in sound quality.  For sure the Flex 8 appears to have a better processing engine and should produce better audio.  For me though, my speaker configuration and the room have more effect on the sound quality than the digital electronics or the amps.  So what I hear in the room from the Flex 8 is identical to what I heard from the 4x10 HD.  Still, I'm very intrigued by the FIR filters available on the Flex 8 as a way of taming the room interactions.  That's the next adventure.

So, I have done some good room treatment. I just need to plan my next move on the audio chain. Where did you get the swissonic unit? I have only  found it for sale in Europe. Thanks

Yep, I was also only able to find it in Europe (I believe shipping was more than the unit itself!)  I purchased from www.thomannmusic.com.  BTW, Audio Science Review did measurements on this unit and concluded that it definitely fit the bill for digitizing vinyl.

What about the E1DA Cosmos ADC?

OMG. I just checked the manual for the Flex and saw that the usb input is not only for control but for audio as well (unlike the 4x10). Okay, then I guess you can't change any settings with the computer software while you are playing a record thru the usb input. You would need to unplug the phono preamp and plub the computer back in? or software control thru bluetooth?