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TOPIC: Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system

Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 1 year 9 months ago #34652

  • TacTZilla
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Hi all.

My first post here.

Knowing little about the subject, I did my usual trick of diving in head first and designing a pair of active boundary woofers using the PWR-ICE-250s and SEAS L26RO4Y drive units. With them I'll be using some very good Artison Materpiece home cinema speakers I picked up for pennies on Ebay, powered by another 250s and all room corrected with the DDRC-22D.

Currently I'm waiting for the drive units to be delivered next week (hopefully), then I can get cracking.

If these work out I'll probably make some small open baffle main speakers.

I'll update as soon as the drive units are in and they are working.

Cheers
Bob
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Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 1 year 9 months ago #34653

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Just did a quick photoshop fiddle to show what one will be like with drive unit in.

Sad I know :S
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Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 1 year 9 months ago #34656

  • john.reekie
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Hi, what's a boundary woofer? (I mean, obviously they are intended to go against the wall but is there more to it than that?)
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 1 year 9 months ago #34658

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Hi John.

Yes, that's pretty much it. Corners of the room are best. The idea being that you do away with and smearing of the bass due to reflections.
Room correction is needed to control all the extra volume gained by corner placement. Often a bonus is that all the extra output helps fill any nulls. Main speakers are then either wall mounted or set out in the room and time delayed to allow the bass to catch up. I've taken inspiration from TacT/Lyngdorf systems. The first time I heard this kind of thing was The W210 corner woofers and the MH-1 main speakers, which was an an outstanding combination. The cross over was at about 800hz.

This is their latest offering..... lyngdorf.com/bw-2/

Picture is of the W210/MH1 combo......
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Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 1 year 9 months ago #34662

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800 Hz!

Interesting. I for one will be interested to hear (well, read) how it all works out.

:cheer:
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 1 year 8 months ago #34797

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Hi John.

Well, they are in and working. The first thing I have to comment on is the amps. The are outstanding and incredible value for money.
I've had expensive digital systems in the past (£30k 10 years ago) and I've used lots of quality isolation products with them, such as Stillpoints and Vertex AQ isolation platforms, cables and mains products. The minidsp plate amps have a super low noise floor and a grip and control of the woofer I haven't heard before. I have crossed over at 800hz and it works superbly. I ended up moving them close to my main speakers rather than in the corners of the room, which made for a much better soundstage. I decided to use a sealed box design over a ported one as I like fast/tight bass and I think it was a good choice. They go plenty deep enough for me and they stop moving very quickly. I'm still trying to get my head around how good they are as I wasn't expecting them to be this good. I still have some messing and tweaking of the target curve to do, so get the best out of them, but I'm now itching to make some main speakers to go with them. I'm thinking an open baffle MTM design using scanspeak revelators. If it's anything like the woofers though, they'll take me a year to get done :unsure:
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Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 1 year 8 months ago #34877

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i used to run a tact 2.2x system, around 13 years ago.
the minidsp products, which i’ve only recently discovered,
put me back in that mood again,

i know peter lyngdorf, and what i’d give for his energy level.
ces 2003 article, with tact being mentioned almost halfway down-
positive-feedback.com/Issue5/ces2003dg.htm
notice the corner-loaded subs, which were low-crossed in the
300-350hz range.

going to try to put an all “horn” system together this time...
jbl synthesis sam1hf from 800hz up, and corner-loaded bass
up to whatever i can get away with (prolly around 300hz).
the challenge will be finding something horn-y between those
two, without overwhelming the room due to its size, e.g. jbl 2360.

on product topic-
just rx’d the nanodigit, and did a quick 2+2 satellites ‘n
subs set-up @ 200hz. using a lavry da11 DAC up top, and an
auralic vega below. in the vega’s exact clock mode,
which’ll give a lot of drop-outs if the source isn’t low
jitter enough, the nano’s digital out had none. listening
to the satellites (jbl studio530s, w/580s, corner-loaded, below),
while paused, at listening levels, had no detectable hiss.
umik-1 arrives today.

cheers
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Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 1 year 8 months ago #34896

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john.reekie wrote:
800 Hz!
Interesting. I for one will be interested to hear (well, read) how it all works out.
:cheer:

just tried an 800hz x-over, and it works like a charm.
my “sub” in this case is a full-range speaker,
very easy to use to try this “experiment”.
some eq is needed, but can live without until the umik arives.
the woof-mid on the satellite is just barely vibrating now,
better matching the the horn tweeter’s open-ness and
dynamic realism. i could also seal the sat’s rear-port,
or keester, if you will; thus avoiding the courtesy of its
out-of-phase reach-around at 1.5khz.

give it a try, john.
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Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 1 year 8 months ago #34898

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Hi.

Glad you liked the result.
Over Christmas I was looking at the Steinway Lyngdorf systems and noticed they were using a Heil AMT. I looked at the ESS ones and they (by wonderful coincidence) go down to 800hz, so I ordered pair. esslabsusa.com/heil-amt/
If they are as good as many claim, should be the perfect combination for me.
Do you have a Dirac Live product for room correction? You can get great results with EQ, but it's very hard to get that soundstage focus you get with RC. The DDRC units work so well.

Cheers
Bob
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Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 1 year 7 months ago #35241

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A little update.

The ESS Heil AMTs are WONDERFUL! and cheap (relatively) and a fantastic match with the miniDSP plate amps.
They are, as claimed, incredibly revealing and they do go down to 800hz. They work great with my boundary woofers.
I knocked up some stands for them this week. (See pic)

Cheers
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Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 1 year 7 months ago #35333

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Cool
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 1 year 7 months ago #35335

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TacTZilla wrote:
A little update.
The ESS Heil AMTs are WONDERFUL! and cheap (relatively) and a fantastic match with the miniDSP plate amps.
They are, as claimed, incredibly revealing and they do go down to 800hz. They work great with my boundary woofers.
I knocked up some stands for them this week. (See pic)
Cheers
very nice TZ!
elegant, compact, and nicely thought-out audio solution you have there.
you could possibly “package it up” as a fine example of what can be done,
relatively easily, with minidsp products.
could you itemize everything that went into this project?
maybe some measurements?

i just bought a second jbl synthesis SAM1HF unit today,
and hope to get back into the swing of things after it arrives.
foul-weathered winter time is perfect for these kinds of projects. :)

cheers
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Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 1 year 7 months ago #35336

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I'll certainly do that for you, hopefully at the weekend.
I was considering offering the boundary woofers as a 'flat-pack' diy kit.
Many thanks for the kind words.

Cheers
Bob
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Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 3 weeks 6 days ago #43356

  • Steve Dodds
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Just wondering if you are still enjoying these.

I've been using boundary woofers with coax Seas C18 open baffle satellites for the past few years and I'm thinking of building a new set for our new house.
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Boundary woofers for a 2.2 system 3 weeks 6 days ago #43357

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Hi Steve.

I have really enjoyed this system. It's never fatiguing to listen to and as revealing just about anything I've heard before. I'll make a video of the current set up later today and post it on Youtube for you.
I have some vague plans for a future system that would involve stacking AMTs to make a line array and having 2 drive units in each (possibly ported this time) boundary woofer.

Here's a video I did quite a while back now. The room was very lively, but you'll get the idea. I've since moved to somewhere with a better sounding room.



Cheers
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