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TOPIC: DDRC-24 with unconventional system?

DDRC-24 with unconventional system? 4 months 4 days ago #47641

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I’d love to implement Dirac Live room correction and system consists as follows:

Sources:
Mac Mini running iTunes/Roon
Cambridge Audio CXC
Technics SL-1200GR

All run to an RME ADI-2 DAC for headphone listening or to my KEF LS50W for speaker listening. My phono preamp is a PS Audio NuWave Phono Converter.

Mac Mini has Optical out in addition to USB.
Cambridge Audio has both Coax and Optical outputs.
PS Audio has balanced and unbalanced analog outputs along with a Coax out.

The KEFs have the following inputs:

RCA
Optical
USB

Is it as simple as connecting to a DDRC-24 as follows:

Mac via USB
Cambridge via Optical
PS Audio via RCA

and then miniDSP to KEF via RCA?

I realize the KEFs will then digitize the signal again but I assume the benefits that Dirac will provide will outweigh any degradation that might cause.

Also, is there a way to eliminate the volume control on the miniDSP unit by maxing it out?

Can you run different calibrations for different speakers in a given setup?

Is it better to integrate a sub prior to running the Dirac or to calibrate it on a separate output?
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DDRC-24 with unconventional system? 4 months 4 days ago #47642

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wgb113 wrote:
Is it as simple as connecting to a DDRC-24 as follows:

Mac via USB
Cambridge via Optical
PS Audio via RCA

and then miniDSP to KEF via RCA?

Yes, you could do that. You could also connect your sub to the miniDSP rather than to your KEFs so that the miniDSP could control the crossover and crucially control the time delay between the mains speakers and sub, which I doubt the KEFs can do?

wgb113 wrote:
Also, is there a way to eliminate the volume control on the miniDSP unit by maxing it out?

Yes. You just set the master volume to 0 dB.

wgb113 wrote:
Can you run different calibrations for different speakers in a given setup?

You'd have 4 independent ouput channels. What you can do with them depends how you connect things up. In your situation you'll have one output to each speaker, with the potential of a third to the sub if you chose to connect this to the miniDSP rather than the KEFs.

wgb113 wrote:
Is it better to integrate a sub prior to running the Dirac or to calibrate it on a separate output?

It is essential that the sub integration is sorted out prior to running Dirac. As I described above this could be using the miniDSP though - it has its own capabilities in addition to Dirac.

Having said all of this, how much have you experimented with applying EQ using your RME DAC? You could go a long way to achieving what you can with the DDRC using what you already have. Well, once you have a measurement microphone anyway.
Last Edit: 4 months 4 days ago by Ultrasonic.
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DDRC-24 with unconventional system? 4 months 4 days ago #47643

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Oops! I've just realised that of course your RME DAC won't allow you to apply EQ for vinyl playback :) .
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DDRC-24 with unconventional system? 4 months 4 days ago #47644

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@Ultrasonic thank you, I appreciate you trying to help me out here.

My sub is an Elac SUB3010. Using my miniDSP UMIK and REW I dialed in the crossover in both the KEF and Elac apps but no, neither has the ability to adjust time delay that I am aware of.

My reason for investigating Dirac as a solution is due to the fact that it can address not only the frequency response issues of the speaker room interaction but the phase issues also. Otherwise, yes I could either use EQ in the RME or in Roon using REW and the mic to measure.
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DDRC-24 with unconventional system? 4 months 4 days ago #47645

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I could by routing the coax out of my phono preamp/ADC to it but I’m looking for more than just EQ.
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DDRC-24 with unconventional system? 4 months 3 days ago #47647

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wgb113 wrote:
@Ultrasonic thank you, I appreciate you trying to help me out here.

My sub is an Elac SUB3010. Using my miniDSP UMIK and REW I dialed in the crossover in both the KEF and Elac apps but no, neither has the ability to adjust time delay that I am aware of.

My reason for investigating Dirac as a solution is due to the fact that it can address not only the frequency response issues of the speaker room interaction but the phase issues also. Otherwise, yes I could either use EQ in the RME or in Roon using REW and the mic to measure.

I have used a 2x4 HD to apply EQ similar to what you could do with your RME, albeit applying 10 filters rather than the 5 I believe the RME allows (and I'm not sure about Room.) I now have an SHD that uses Dirac but I've yet to make full use of this as I have limited myself to single point measurements so far. Used in this way, and only applying EQ below 200 Hz, there is a clear improvement in the measured impulse response compared to what I'd achieved previously but I'll be honest I'm not going to say it actually sounds any better as a result. I'll stress that I've not used Dirac fully yet but I'm just saying this as I'm sceptical how significant the phase changes really are.

For me the main advantage of Dirac is that it is much more automated. The DDRC-24 is also more capable than the RME DAC in terms of having twice as many filters available and in terms of its subwoofer integration capabilities. And that you can use it with your turntable.
Last Edit: 4 months 3 days ago by Ultrasonic.
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DDRC-24 with unconventional system? 4 months 3 days ago #47648

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How were you planning to control the playback volume? I'll just mention that one practical limitation of the DDRC-24 is that it doesn't have a volume indicator on it. This is useable but it can be frustrating. If you used the miniDSP for sub integration you would need to use it to control volume. I did just this with my 2x4 HD so I'm talking from experience on the volume control point.
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DDRC-24 with unconventional system? 4 months 3 days ago #47651

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Ultrasonic wrote:
wgb113 wrote:
@Ultrasonic thank you, I appreciate you trying to help me out here.

My sub is an Elac SUB3010. Using my miniDSP UMIK and REW I dialed in the crossover in both the KEF and Elac apps but no, neither has the ability to adjust time delay that I am aware of.

My reason for investigating Dirac as a solution is due to the fact that it can address not only the frequency response issues of the speaker room interaction but the phase issues also. Otherwise, yes I could either use EQ in the RME or in Roon using REW and the mic to measure.

I have used a 2x4 HD to apply EQ similar to what you could do with your RME, albeit applying 10 filters rather than the 5 I believe the RME allows (and I'm not sure about Room.) I now have an SHD that uses Dirac but I've yet to make full use of this as I have limited myself to single point measurements so far. Used in this way, and only applying EQ below 200 Hz, there is a clear improvement in the measured impulse response compared to what I'd achieved previously but I'll be honest I'm not going to say it actually sounds any better as a result. I'll stress that I've not used Dirac fully yet but I'm just saying this as I'm sceptical how significant the phase changes really are.

For me the main advantage of Dirac is that it is much more automated. The DDRC-24 is also more capable than the RME DAC in terms of having twice as many filters available and in terms of its subwoofer integration capabilities. And that you can use it with your turntable.

The 2x4 seems sufficient, I only wish it had a digital out like the SHD, to avoid so many conversions.
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DDRC-24 with unconventional system? 4 months 3 days ago #47652

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Ultrasonic wrote:
How were you planning to control the playback volume? I'll just mention that one practical limitation of the DDRC-24 is that it doesn't have a volume indicator on it. This is useable but it can be frustrating. If you used the miniDSP for sub integration you would need to use it to control volume. I did just this with my 2x4 HD so I'm talking from experience on the volume control point.

Ideally I’d bypass the 2x4’s control by maxing it out and use the KEF’s volume control.
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DDRC-24 with unconventional system? 4 months 3 days ago #47654

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wgb113 wrote:
The 2x4 seems sufficient, I only wish it had a digital out like the SHD, to avoid so many conversions.

The miniDSP 2x4 is actually pretty poor by most accounts but I assume you meant the DDRC-24 there :) .

If you have an ADC you're happy with then an SHD Studio would be a slightly cheaper option for you than an SHD but still about twice the cost of a DDRC-24. The SHD Studio is purely digital, and so could be connected directly to your sub without using a separate DAC but possibly you'd have a spare input an output on your RME you could use.
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