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TOPIC: DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled?

DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 3 months 1 week ago #46729

  • aronake
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Hi,

With Dirac turned off it seems to me that the sound stage is moving around when changing filter slot. Seems to only be balance. Anyone else noticed this? Is this correct behavior?
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DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 3 months 1 week ago #46743

  • Ultrasonic
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aronake wrote:
Hi,

With Dirac turned off it seems to me that the sound stage is moving around when changing filter slot. Seems to only be balance. Anyone else noticed this? Is this correct behavior?
If you look at the Outputs tab in the plugin I expect you'll find some presets have crossovers active, since from memory they aren't all off by default. If you've previously applied any PEQ, or made othere changes, then these could be having effect too.
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DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 3 months 1 week ago #46745

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Hi,

Thanks for comments. But do DDRC22D have PEQ and filters? I havent seen that.
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DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 3 months 1 week ago #46747

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aronake wrote:
Hi,

Thanks for comments. But do DDRC22D have PEQ and filters? I havent seen that.
Ah, sorry, a quick look at the manual suggests not. The DDRC-24 does and I hadn't realised this functionality was missing from the 22D.
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DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 3 months 1 week ago #46754

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I haven't measured to check but my understanding is that turning DL off still applies the gain and delay adjustments that DL decided on. Perhaps that is what is happening here.

I guess the only real way to compare DL on/off is to switch to a preset that doesn't have DL filters loaded at all.

With DL2 you can't actually delete a filter from a slot. Unless the new version (2.4) has added that ability. Maybe it's possible to start up DLCT (DL1) and delete it there, haven't tried.
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
Last Edit: 3 months 1 week ago by john.reekie.
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DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 3 months 1 week ago #46755

  • aronake
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Hi John,

Thanks for comments. I suspect it is how you write regarding saving some settings. Would be interesting to be able to see these settings.

And I also noticed that Dirac 2 doesnt allow to delete filter, so had to use the brute force solution of conniecting streamer direct to DAC to measure to get confirmed that problem came from DDRC and not some inbalance in amplifier.
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DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 2 months 4 weeks ago #46841

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I’ve had same issues and discovered what it is


When you have a Dirac filter loaded in the slot, and disengage Dirac live so it’s just passing through audio , the filter loaded still has some delay and phase discrepancies.

That is true and there’s also 8ms of output delay.

All you have to do is offload the filter and the problem should go away.

I don’t know why, I do know it just does.

I don’t know how to offload (trash can) a filter on a preset from the 2.0 UI , on 1.x it’s just drag to trash.

I use a ddrc22d, I haven’t seen this on my ddrc24
Only my 22d ....

Hope that helps
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DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 2 months 4 weeks ago #46845

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thanks for further details on this.

Clearly an unwanted behavior and something that should be addressed in future firmware. Or at least allowing to remove the filter in one slot.
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DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 2 months 4 weeks ago #46846

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I agree we should definitely be able to delete at least the gain and delay settings. Right now I'm likely to end up installing Dirac v1 purely to do this, which is obviously ridiculous. Think I'll post about this in the suggestions section...

Edit: I should have said that I see this behaviour on my SHD.
Last Edit: 2 months 3 weeks ago by Ultrasonic.
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DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 2 months 4 weeks ago #46853

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I agree it’s a little bit strange ,

I use a 8x12DL for a 4-way with 8 Dirac channels , and a ddrc22d upstream

I have to physically take the toss link Cable off of the 22 and put it into the 8x12DL when I calibrate the 8x12DL, than switch it back when I go over all of it with the 22d. Otherwise the 8x12DL calibration isn’t correct.
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DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 2 months 3 weeks ago #46857

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denver8me4dinner wrote:
I’ve had same issues and discovered what it is


When you have a Dirac filter loaded in the slot, and disengage Dirac live so it’s just passing through audio , the filter loaded still has some delay and phase discrepancies.

That is true and there’s also 8ms of output delay.

All you have to do is offload the filter and the problem should go away.

I don’t know why, I do know it just does.

I don’t know how to offload (trash can) a filter on a preset from the 2.0 UI , on 1.x it’s just drag to trash.

I use a ddrc22d, I haven’t seen this on my ddrc24
Only my 22d ....

Hope that helps

I noticed this recently on the 8x12DL also. It seems that the overall delay/levels that show in the plug-in for each channel are still active even when Dirac is shut off. That is why I now remove the Dirac file from the preset before attempting to perform another Dirac Optimization on it.
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DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 2 months 3 weeks ago #46909

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anyone who know with more certainty if this unwanted behavior affects new calibrations? Or when running the calibration the signal passed though is not affected?
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DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 2 months 3 weeks ago #46911

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aronake wrote:
anyone who know with more certainty if this unwanted behavior affects new calibrations? Or when running the calibration the signal passed though is not affected?

Are you talking about running a second Dirac calibration. I'd be pretty confident there would be no problem at all with that. I don't think you asked this before.

I was going to test this out myself later but I think I've figured out a way to get the Dirac input gains and delays reset to zero in DL v2. My thinking is that if I temporarily change the signal routing so that the left and right input signal both just go to the same speaker and then run Dirac then it will calculate and apply zero gain and delay (since the signals should be identical).
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DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 2 months 3 weeks ago #46912

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Ultrasonic wrote:
I was going to test this out myself later but I think I've figured out a way to get the Dirac input gains and delays reset to zero in DL v2. My thinking is that if I temporarily change the signal routing so that the left and right input signal both just go to the same speaker and then run Dirac then it will calculate and apply zero gain and delay (since the signals should be identical).

^I've now tried this and can confirm it works as I expected. Note that to do this it is just necessary to measure the center location and then go straight to the Filter Design page. It also shouldn't make any difference where the microphone is actually positioned. It looks like the gain setting comes from the difference on the Volume Calibration page, so make sure that you stop the measurement on the second channel when the level exactly matches the first. (On my first run-through I got a 0.1 dB difference which resulted in a -0.1 dB Dirac input setting on one channel. Too small to care about but I did repeat it so the value got set to exactly 0.0 dB.)

If the project is saved once completed then it can be used again on future occasions without having to make new measurements.

Note that this will of course give an inappropriate Dirac filter but the purpose here is to give zero gain and delay when Dirac is set to Off.

Of course none of this faffing about would be necessary if turning Dirac off just disabled the input gain and delays...
Last Edit: 2 months 3 weeks ago by Ultrasonic.
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DDRC22D processing signal despite Dirac disabled? 2 months 3 weeks ago #46988

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Some clarifications for all
- Dirac 2 doesn't have the delete filter I'm afraid. We've asked few times, maybe community members can ask too and then it might make it to future features ?? . :-)
- Delay/Gain are indeed kept in background so one doesn't get a large level difference when you toggle one more to the other. Maybe in future we can change this behavior.. it has been the same on all platforms for a while FYI..
- When you do a new Dirac live measurement on an older slots, there will be no effect to what was used/loaded before. It's a complete different path in our code as to how (and where) we generate the sweep.

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