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TOPIC: New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL

New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 1 month 3 days ago #42678

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rccotroneo wrote:
Got my first listen in.

I set it up using separate Dirac channel per driver. I also put in delays on the outputs using the same numbers I used in my previous non DL tune that sounded very good to me. Dirac tab after optimization still show delays though.

Generated driver target curves with Justin Zazzy's spreadsheet using an overall Half-Whitledge Curve. They loaded right up and levels were close enough.... though I think I should of dropped them down more to meet up closer with the bottom of the nulls.

Imaging across the stage was spot on. Need to listen more but definitely heard some details that I hadn't heard before on familiar tracks. Tweeter levels were wayyyy low... not sure why but may be something I did wrong. Need to listen some more and try some different things before I pass judgement.


Make sure the output sliders in DLCT are all the way up ? If your getting too much gain use the physical amp gain to lower the gain. Those sliders are part of Dirac , it’s a home audio rendition of the ddrc88 , in a car you definitely don’t want to throw away gain.


Dirac will change your delays , don’t even bother it wi just confuse you when trying to post tune


I like to start with everything at 1ms in outputs
Gives me a little wiggle room if I want to ajust a driver up or down in delay after Dirac . 1ms is more than plenty (unless using multiple midbass pairs and there mounted away from each other , like front and rear, than maybe 3ms or so) .

If your on off axis response is very good start with all gains at zero as well. Than turn down anything you think is too loud after Dirac.


Dirac usually does very good on timing. So if the center is diffused or too far to the left try turning down the left side a tad after Dirac before you go run for the delays. You’ll find it centers up nicely.

Keep in mind with transfer functions that match in a post Dirac car, and being on axis on one side and off axis to another the post Dirac delays may not make much sense , however it will sound good as it moves timing in frequency dependent areas to match the opposing side. Give it a chance to do it’s thing, definitely fine tune a little post Dirac , just start with levels.

Hope that helps some .

Andrew
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 1 month 2 days ago #42714

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Dear All

Maybe just a suggestion for new owners who are learning BOTH miniDSP software layout AND Dirac live, why not start simple and build on top.. We're seeing some varying levels of knowledge which is usual but can't help to think that maybe you should start simple first like anything in life.. :-)

I see that a lot of you are using multi-driver Dirac live tuning... To be honest, it's quite complex to and a lot more work that you may need to get a system up and running.. e.g. a lot of miniDSP Dirac live platforms are actually running Dirac x1 - > Xover (split to 3) rather than Dirac x 3 (i.e. correction for each driver). Dirac's internal algorithm will be able to account for your correcting a multi driver setup.

If we were you, I'd start simple first so you learn how to use Dirac live. Sure you're not using all Dirac channels but it's still going to work thanks to Dirac live structure AND it might overperform at the crossover point because Dirac Live will correct the crossover frequencies (which multi-Dirac live banks per speaker won't).

In other words, use the "MIXER" tab to split your one Dirac Live correction to multdriver.

Our 2cts.. :-)

DevTeam
MiniDSP, building a DIY DSP community one board at a time.
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 1 month 13 hours ago #42738

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devteam wrote:
Dear All

Maybe just a suggestion for new owners who are learning BOTH miniDSP software layout AND Dirac live, why not start simple and build on top.. We're seeing some varying levels of knowledge which is usual but can't help to think that maybe you should start simple first like anything in life.. :-)

I see that a lot of you are using multi-driver Dirac live tuning... To be honest, it's quite complex to and a lot more work that you may need to get a system up and running.. e.g. a lot of miniDSP Dirac live platforms are actually running Dirac x1 - > Xover (split to 3) rather than Dirac x 3 (i.e. correction for each driver). Dirac's internal algorithm will be able to account for your correcting a multi driver setup.

If we were you, I'd start simple first so you learn how to use Dirac live. Sure you're not using all Dirac channels but it's still going to work thanks to Dirac live structure AND it might overperform at the crossover point because Dirac Live will correct the crossover frequencies (which multi-Dirac live banks per speaker won't).

In other words, use the "MIXER" tab to split your one Dirac Live correction to multdriver.

Our 2cts.. :-)

DevTeam



That’s excellent advice! :)


I feel like it’s sorta my fault for any confusion :unsure: but honestly I wouldn’t have guessed there would be any. After hearing all the feedback here and on DIYMA it kinda took me back to when I very first installed my ddrc22d and all the things I was thinking I should do with my system as I was figuring out how to tune with Dirac.

When I installed my CDSP , I jumped right into 8ch Dirac with excellent results, :P (thank you minidsp! ) I knew exactly what I wanted to do with it!! :evil:

It took me better part of a year of tuning with 2ch Dirac to want more channels with it as I wasn’t getting that last little bit. :pinch:
On the contrary I was happy with 2ch and figured out other ways in the dsp to reach my goals. After learning exactly how it reacts to every little change in the target, I wanted more to really nail down my 4 way, I knew multi-channel Dirac was the answer. After experiments with the 2ch box on so many different ways of implementing it, I reached the end of its ability in my hands. :silly:

In hindsight if I was new to this and had 8ch, I’m not sure I would ever get it right as there so many ways to make mistakes with it. And so many different ways a cars acoustics and all the variety’s of amps and speakers. Not to mention all the different ways to place speakers I’m so many varieties of automobiles.

I was pretty excited on this release :woohoo: , definitely was wanting to help everyone get there 8ch working and trying to help with the best advice I could give . Always encouraging experimentation and trying different things and never saying it has to go a certain way to encourage experience with ones specific implementations of gear. It’s very apparent that 2ch Dirac is the best way to start off. ;)
It’s so much easier to manage the target and so much easier to hear what it’s doing when you don’t have 8ch to try to manage all doing different things.

We all got ahead of ourselves! And I apologize for any confusion. It’s so exciting to play with this stuff . Let’s do it right! :silly: :lol:

I’m sure after a little bit of time most everyone will be using at least 4 Dirac channels on there multi-way. It’s very good, I’ll continue to use 8ch it made my system the best it’s ever been. I had no idea my system could get this good. And being completely honest, it’s only a little bit better than it was with 2ch Dirac. But that’s just me. I’m going to go make another profile right now so much fun tuning! B)

Thanks ,
Andrew
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 4 weeks 1 day ago #42749

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Attempting to do another project but having an issue with test signals.

I'm on the output & levels tab and clicked on the play button on one of the channels to play pink noise to verify levels... But not getting any pink noise coming out of the speakers.

I verified the Dirac channel outpul levels are at 0db and even moved the output gain to 0db. Also, verified in the CDSP plugin: the channels are not muted, master mute is off, master volume 0db, verified proper routing & mixing too.

Any ideas what else to check?
Last Edit: 4 weeks 1 day ago by rccotroneo.
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 3 weeks 6 days ago #42778

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rccotroneo wrote:
Attempting to do another project but having an issue with test signals.

I'm on the output & levels tab and clicked on the play button on one of the channels to play pink noise to verify levels... But not getting any pink noise coming out of the speakers.

I verified the Dirac channel outpul levels are at 0db and even moved the output gain to 0db. Also, verified in the CDSP plugin: the channels are not muted, master mute is off, master volume 0db, verified proper routing & mixing too.

Any ideas what else to check?


What’s your source , toslink perhaps?

Have you tried a refresh dsp program

Can you please attach your configuration file ?

Andrew
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 2 weeks 5 days ago #42824

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My unit will be in soon. Was hoping for some tips on the setup to ease my way into this.

1. How do you all hold the mic in position for the test?

2. Should the mic be pointing in front or up and which mic calibration file should you use?

3. Do you need to finish all the measurements or maybe 3 or 5 or 7 measurements around the area is fine.

4. For a 2 seat tune, how would you go about it? First measurement right in the middle of the ear of both passenger and driver, then a mix of equal measurements on both sides to the seats area or just a measurement of the middle section area.

Thanks!
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 2 weeks 4 days ago #42832

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oliverlim wrote:
My unit will be in soon. Was hoping for some tips on the setup to ease my way into this.

1. How do you all hold the mic in position for the test?

2. Should the mic be pointing in front or up and which mic calibration file should you use?

3. Do you need to finish all the measurements or maybe 3 or 5 or 7 measurements around the area is fine.

4. For a 2 seat tune, how would you go about it? First measurement right in the middle of the ear of both passenger and driver, then a mix of equal measurements on both sides to the seats area or just a measurement of the middle section area.

Thanks!

Face it horizontally, use the non 90 degree file.

Finish all the measurements.

For a 2 seat...idk.

Check this thread on Diyma for ALOT more info.

www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-a...-18.html#post5717909
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 2 weeks 4 days ago #42833

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oliverlim wrote:
My unit will be in soon. Was hoping for some tips on the setup to ease my way into this.

1. How do you all hold the mic in position for the test?

2. Should the mic be pointing in front or up and which mic calibration file should you use?

3. Do you need to finish all the measurements or maybe 3 or 5 or 7 measurements around the area is fine.

4. For a 2 seat tune, how would you go about it? First measurement right in the middle of the ear of both passenger and driver, then a mix of equal measurements on both sides to the seats area or just a measurement of the middle section area.

Thanks!


What are you trying to get out of a two seat tune ?


Do you know that path length differences on all driver seats to both sides ?

Andrew
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 2 weeks 4 days ago #42841

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I read about using a all pass filter base on the difference in distance of the mid bass speaker. Is that what you are referring to?

I am basically aiming for decent sound for both passenger and driver that does not irritate anyone. Like for a driver tune, when seating at the passenger, vocals sounds like it’s coming from in front of u near your feet. Or sometimes even nearer to the passenger window.

In my previous car, which was a Volvo C30 which has 8 speakers no center stock. It had the vocal pretty much in the center of the car for everyone in the car. I never thought much about how it manage to do that. Then I recall it came with dynaudio speakers. Then I recall hearing a review they did with the founders of dynaudio. They had a “way” of not using timing or delay but another industry tweak to Ensure that everyone in the car could enjoy decent imaging and tone. So I was hoping Dirac does this. They did mention sometime along these lines in their automotive solution which were only for oem

denver8me4dinner wrote:
oliverlim wrote:
My unit will be in soon. Was hoping for some tips on the setup to ease my way into this.

1. How do you all hold the mic in position for the test?

2. Should the mic be pointing in front or up and which mic calibration file should you use?

3. Do you need to finish all the measurements or maybe 3 or 5 or 7 measurements around the area is fine.

4. For a 2 seat tune, how would you go about it? First measurement right in the middle of the ear of both passenger and driver, then a mix of equal measurements on both sides to the seats area or just a measurement of the middle section area.

Thanks!


What are you trying to get out of a two seat tune ?


Do you know that path length differences on all driver seats to both sides ?

Andrew
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 2 weeks 4 days ago #42842

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Thanks! Will check out that threadJscoyne2 wrote:
oliverlim wrote:
My unit will be in soon. Was hoping for some tips on the setup to ease my way into this.

1. How do you all hold the mic in position for the test?

2. Should the mic be pointing in front or up and which mic calibration file should you use?

3. Do you need to finish all the measurements or maybe 3 or 5 or 7 measurements around the area is fine.

4. For a 2 seat tune, how would you go about it? First measurement right in the middle of the ear of both passenger and driver, then a mix of equal measurements on both sides to the seats area or just a measurement of the middle section area.

Thanks!

Face it horizontally, use the non 90 degree file.

Finish all the measurements.

For a 2 seat...idk.

Check this thread on Diyma for ALOT more info.

www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-a...-18.html#post5717909
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 2 weeks 1 day ago #42888

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Just thought I would add a quick reply to the thread.... I was having a similar issue to @rccotroneo that my tweeter levels were showing as -40dB even following the auto target and not changing it at all. Ended up doing a factory reset on the unit and all is good again. For now I just have a single tune set up using the auto target, what amazes me with this unit is just how fast it is to get a really great sounding tune going. The longest piece for me was getting the output levels correct, with that done taking measurements takes no time at all.

My next plan is to try some custom curves on the other 3 presets, but much like @TimoJ posted earlier, the DSP just makes the speakers disappear. The curve I am running could do with a little more mid / sub bass, but I think that is more personal preference. I have spent a good bit of time listening over the last couple days and it sounds really incredible no matter what type of music you play. If you are on the fence about buying one, IMO it is well worth the price and you will be very happy. I can't see me needing or wanting to try another DSP for a long time.
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 1 week 5 days ago #42915

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Did you just reset the unit but used the same memory and Dirac preset?

I seem to be facing the same issue. All my tweeters/mid/midbass are
Showing cuts of between -12–22 and 0 on the sub. When I check it with my rta, it shows my sub level at around 20-25db higher then the rest. I am not sure why this is happening but it seems we can’t change the Dirac gain once it is set.
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 1 week 4 days ago #42931

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oliverlim wrote:
Did you just reset the unit but used the same memory and Dirac preset?

I seem to be facing the same issue. All my tweeters/mid/midbass are
Showing cuts of between -12–22 and 0 on the sub. When I check it with my rta, it shows my sub level at around 20-25db higher then the rest. I am not sure why this is happening but it seems we can’t change the Dirac gain once it is set.

I reset the unit and essentially started again as if it were a brand new unit. I could have re-used the preset but decided to just start fresh.

It sounds like though that your target may be too low, I only had low levels on my tweeters, everything else was fine. Are you using a custom target? Can you post a screenshot of your response and target? Now that I am happy with the auto target on mine I plan to start trying out custom targets, but first wanted to get a basic set up nailed down.
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 1 week 3 days ago #42934

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I was using a custom target when that happen. But the target was close to what I was getting. I ended trying the auto target. But for some reason my sub was way Low and it decided not to boost the sub. Sound staging and imaging was fantastic! My first working Dirac tune. Just too bass light.

Let me try to connect up to get the screenshots. I wish there was a offline mode so that we can do the targets and filters offline and upload them at a later time.

One think I found. The center was a little too right. We are RHD here. If I move my head just a little left it is perfect. Not sure if that means I need to place the first spot a little more left?
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New automotive Dirac Live: CDSP 8x12 DL 1 week 1 day ago #42946

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Finally got it to work properly and almost got a good tune. I did a per driver per dirac model so my 3 way active with a sub was using 7 DIRAC channels.

I had to use the Auto curve mode which I will explain why later. But I have to say, its amazing what it does! The soundstaging is the best I have ever heard in my system. And it high up and above like on the bonnet. while it was previously generally lower in height. I tried the tracking playing piano, guiter, voice, pink noise in 5 positions and there were right on. Amazing.

But the auto curve mode is a little too bright for my taste and not bassy enough in the low end and generally just a little too cold/lean. I initially tried using my own house curve which I know I like but ran into issues. Basically when I load it in say the Left tweeter, it would then now allow me to narrow the frequency of correction. I cannot drag the left portion towards the higher frequency. Same for say the sub, I cannot drag the bar at the 20K hz to lower like say 100hz. I think its something about the frequency bar not being able to go over one of the red dots which plots the custom house curve. Can this be corrected or is it corrected in V2 of Dirac?

I also wish there is a offline mode where we can play with the curves and even optimize it and then save the project for uploading into the 8x12dl later.

I also continue to run into clipping issue on the sub. and it does not even sound loud when that happens. So I basically ensure the gain is such that all channels are around the middle or -12 green bar range. But in some of the 9 mic positions, the sub would show clipping. I then have to go back to the previous screen and drop the sub gain by say 6db and remeasure. Then move on to the next position but change the sub gain back up to normal. repeat and rinse. another new position later would clip while some are ok. Not sure if this contributed to my bass light tune issue. Why is this happening? Is the range required by Dirac just to limited? The app can really be frustrating sometimes.

I have also encounter a number of times where the app just quit and dumped me back to windows with no errors. Not sure why or what happen. But I think it is related to the custom curve issue I was facing. Which is why the offline mode is really really important.

I have to also say that the wired remote control is really really poorly designed. Yes it is well made. But it is like 4 times thicker then my audison remote, about 25% bigger in width and length and yet does not have any display. The audison remote despite being so much smaller and thinner, has a screen that shows the volume levels of the sub/master which is very very important. As it stands right now, the subwoofer mode is almost useless when you do not know what level it is. Maybe a limit that you can define in the unit on a per slot basis like slot 1 allows +/- 3, slot 2 +/- 6 etc may help as it allows you to turn the knob to max and count down etc. The audison remote also has buttons for each memory slot and generally easy to navigate then to press button 1 and 2 at the same time then, press button 4 to change mode, and remember, blinking lights means sub and full on lights means master volume control. Very very poor huge remote control is all I have to say.
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