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TOPIC: DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation

DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 2 months 4 weeks ago #38467

  • JasonFoi
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I previously requested a on/off for speaker delay compensation as this delay imparts very audible comb filtering in a well treated room and havent gotten a response in weeks so ill try this another way.

Since you are obviously unwilling to add this functionality into the software/firmware i wonder if it would be possible instead to simply overwrite the parameter after dirac creates it.

After measurement, dirac saves all generated files to the computer for backup. Would it be possible to open the filter settings file in a text editor and then change any delay value imposed by the software to "0", and then save the file. And load the new edited version in my ddrc-88a?
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DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 2 months 4 weeks ago #38468

  • john.reekie
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You can add delay on the output channels.
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 2 months 4 weeks ago #38470

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I dont want any delay. I want to turn the speaker delay compensation off. Adding delay to all channels will just add latency
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DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 2 months 4 weeks ago #38471

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Um, Dirac Live inherently has a delay. If your left/right delays are off by more than a few percent of the delay it already has, there is some issue you should get to the root cause of.
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
Last Edit: 2 months 4 weeks ago by john.reekie. Reason: speeling
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DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 2 months 4 weeks ago #38472

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If the measurement mic isnt perfectly centered youre going to cause delay compensation thats not really needed. In a heavily treated room this delay causes very audible comb filtering, especially when monitoring in mono. Dirac knows this and you can turn off speaker delay compensation in the computer version. This feature didnt make it into the minidsp version for whatever reason. I just want to turn it off in the minidsp version. I realise using dsp adds latency, so does my asio drivers. Im trying to keep it at a minimum.
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DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 2 months 4 weeks ago #38473

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If you're mixing to mono, you will need to have that "before" Dirac Live in the signal chain, not "after".
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 2 months 4 weeks ago #38474

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I dont want to send a mono signal to dirac. I want to check my mixes in mono for phase cancellations. And even more than that, even a stereo signal still has much of the energy and content panned right down the middle which can still be problematic when one channel is delayed. I will be using dirac to help do the final smoothing of the frequency response and decay times in my highly treated studio control room. Monitors are flush mounted and their relation to listening position has been laid out very carefully and early reflections will be supressed effectively.
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DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 2 months 4 weeks ago #38475

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Of course, you can do what you want, it's your gear. However, if you mix to mono after the Dirac Live correction then the left speaker will have the correction for both speakers applied to it, and vice versa. This is regardless of the delay setting. Most people would consider this suboptimal I think. Possibly counterproductive, if the point is to "check your mix for phase cancellations."
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 2 months 4 weeks ago #38481

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Im not sure i follow you. Im not routing the output of dirac to mono, ie sending one output channel to both speakers. Im sending a mono signal from my daw through the chain. Instead of having wide panning and different sounds on left and right channels the stereo signal will be summed to mono. Everything panned dead center, both channels playing the same signal. Each speaker is still independent, they just play the exact same thing. Because of this, the delay dirac imposes causes comb filtering and phase cancellations because of the time difference in the two copies of the same signal.
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DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 2 months 2 weeks ago #38564

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@JasonFoi

We could be wrong but I don't believe that we specifically stated that we were unwilling to add this feature.. :-) We simply stated that the product didn't have this feature (as it's not documented in user manual.. :-) It's just a statement as to what the product does and doesn't.. :-)

With regards to what John stated, I think that it's good to clarify just in case we're talking of the same:
- Dirac Live will add latency. That's 13mS that the signal will go through the large filter banks. It's not something we can remove I'm afraid.
- There is some very minor latency added for speaker time alignment L&R but that will be minor. That's nowhere near that number.
- How about simply creating a preset that is meant for MONO mode. i.e. Set your DAW to Mono, go to Dirac Live and create a CUSTOM preset that is Mono. In this mode, you just measure your speaker as MONO and just correct as MONO. It won't create any of the issues listed above (i.e. trying to listen to a mono mode with filters (meant for stereo listening engaged)

That would easily do the trick. :-)

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DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 2 months 2 weeks ago #38576

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Correct, i was never specifically told you were unwilling to add the feature i just assumed it when a month went by with no reply after i was asked why i wanted the feature.

I understand the 13ms delay, and am fine with that.

I would need to buy the remote to do your suggestion? To switch presets? This would possibly be better than nothing, but still not ideal.

Would it be possible to edit the save file in a text editor to turn off speaker delay compensation?

Alternatively, could you please add a disable speaker delay compensation option in the gui/firmware?

There are quite a few professional users who would like this functionality, including a beta tester for dirac who owns your product but will not use because it lacks this option.
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DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 2 months 2 weeks ago #38597

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@ Jason

can you please clarify why it's not ideal to have a Dirac live filter that is exactly built for the way the speakers are used? i.e. mono.
We'd tend to think it's the best way no?

There isn't a way to edit speaker/delay I'm afraid. It's a complete change to a)GUI b) DSP firwmare c)DLL of Dirac.. Nothing simple in the market of making embedded devices. :-)

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DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 2 months 2 weeks ago #38603

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The speakers will mostly be used in a stereo 2.2 system, and i will check mixes occasionally in mono. However, even a stereo signal has a great deal of its energy panned right down the middle making it inhetently something like 80% mono anyways. The speaker delay compensation creates comb filtering which is higly audible in a well treated room. The developers at dirac know this, and so they put in the disable button on the computer version.

Here's a recent discussion thread that will help explain this better...

www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-...lts-small-rooms.html

I know that its a complete change to have a button or box to tick in the software, but a work around would possibly be to "hack" the .dprj file which contains all user data for filter banks and delay settings by opening it in a text editor, changing the parameter for the delay, saving the new file, and loading it as a custom curve. Its possible with many other file types and operating systems so it might work here too. I havent had a look at the text contained in the file yet though. Its just a thought.
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DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 4 weeks 1 day ago #39187

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Any thoughts or updates? Its been a long time with no reply.
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DDRC-88A-BM speaker delay compensation 3 weeks 6 days ago #39220

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@JasonFoi

Unfortunately we don't have a way to modify any of these settings. They are embedded inside the DLL, programming of how Dirac is telling the DSP to load a specific setting (see the GUI has no control to say I want to do only Frequency tuning, not time alignment). Only the DLCT is able to do that feature as far as we know. There could be a way to do that from a plugin modification but it would require a reprogramming of the GUI + internal settings.. Maybe in the future, we can consider it. No timeline I'm afraid.

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