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TOPIC: DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac

DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 6 months ago #16958

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quack724 wrote:
1) From previous reply, it was said that one "can only connect unbalanced OR balanced. Having both sources loaded to the inputs isn't recommended." My current set up has the left & right output from my Onkyo PR-SC885 SSP to Odyssey 2 ch amp via RCAs. Center and four surrounds are all XLRs from Onkyo SSP to a Sunfire 5 channel amp. Long story short, this was the stable solution to get rid of a humming issue I had. Is it ok to have a mix like this with DDRC-88A ? meaning, as long as I don't have RCA and XLR for a specific channel at the same time (only RCA -or- XLR for a channel) ?


2) I have two subwoofers for LFE currently output from a Xilica XP-2040 Parametric EQ { SSP single XLR out --> Parametric EQ 2 x XRL out --> XLR in of Sub 1 & XLR in of Sub 2 . Can I use Phoenix to XLR --> XLR "Y" cable to two subs? Otherwise I don't have enough channels as I have left, center, right, and four surround channels.

3) Can someone confirm Hosa part numbers for the standard Phoenix to XLR (both genders) are
Hosa PHX-206F
Hosa PHX-206M

Oh sure, you can indeed have a "mix" of RCA or Balanced. Note that they will have different input level capabilities though. (balanced vs unbalanced).
We were talking of the case where one is "loading" say INPUT 1 with both a balanced AND unbalanced signal. That's the case that isn't recommended.

As for the split for the outputs, sure, not a problem to load these.

HOSA ref. The pitch of that phoenix connector is wrong I'm afraid. You need to find the one that has the 3.81mm pitch. We'll see if we can source these cable here to add to shopping cart.
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DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 6 months ago #16959

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Skylinestar wrote:
Does the DDRC-88A have splitting/routing function?
I would like to split the left surround into two left surrounds (surround array setup), and both must be perfectly time-aligned and equalized (both equalized together as a set/unity).
Can this unit do it? Can the nanoAVR DL do it too?
If it's the exact same EQ, then just use one output and use a splitter (or use balanced and unabalanced outputs since they are both enabled). Wouldn't this work?
There isn't a matrix inside the DDRC-88A. It's IN1 to OUT1.
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DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 6 months ago #16963

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Hi devteam,

Thank you for your patience in answering all these questions. I think it just reflects a lot of interest in this particular product and hope MiniDSP does well with it.

I'm going to circle back to a few of my questions to clarify a few things.

(3) Digital volume control. Assuming the source signal is has 24bit of data, there would be no loss of that data if the volume is at 100%. I.e. input = output. As the volume is turned down from maximum, it will start to truncate from 32bits until eventually reaching 24bits. Question is how far down the volume can one go down from 32bits to 24bits? Is it 10%? Or 20%?

(6) Remote trigger support. This is more of powering the DDRC-88A either ON or OFF. Understand there is a switch at the back for manual mode. Would like the ability to turn ON the DDRC-88A remotely. Either through an external remote 12V DC trigger or one of the IR codes. Under section 5.3 Infrared Remote Control, there doesn't seem to be specific code for turning the DDRC-88A either ON or OFF?

(7) How does the DDRC-88A handle the initial power ON sequence? This is related to item (6). If a remote power ON/OFF is available, then programmed start-up and shut-down can be had. Either through a logitech universal remote or professional room control hardware/software solution.
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DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 6 months ago #16969

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Making a mode for multi-zone correction would double or triple the sales for this product (maybe 10x). Obviously it would be best to have it test one stereo zone completely, then move on to the next. The issue I see for home theater apps is that it requires a preamp/amp, which means a high-end system, which means the preamp probebly has room correction. If it's a really high-end user, they won't be on board with added DAC/ADC, even if it's inaudible. If it's a lower end user, the price gets in the way because people really don't care that much and just want "TV sound". Whereas the digital version can be added lossessly to a high end system and can be automated by a universal remote to fit in seamlessly, even if the person has 4 or 5 HDMI products (even though only a few will be processed)

So, the niche is there, but, IMO, the analog version will do far better with the custom install market where EVERY house could use one because their sound is pretty mediocre, and it's a good price for 4 zones of correction.
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DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 6 months ago #16971

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devteam wrote:
Sure, RCA in, Phoenix out is fine. Gain matching = gain structure. In most of times, especially if you're using consumer grade amplifiers, using balanced outputs (i.e. higher levels on this platform), you won't exactly benefit from Common Mode Rejection of balanced (i.e. very short distance). You'd have to pay attention that balanced signals have higher outputs and may create a mismatch for your gain structure. Each amp, each setup is different I guess.
My setup will be from consumer gear (AVR) to pro gear (amp). Haven't bought any amp yet, but the Crown CT8150 caught my attention as it is multichannel. Example: Denon AVR multichannel preouts to Dirac via RCA, then finally to Crown CT8150 pro gear amp via phoenix. For your info, most Crown amps have phoenix inputs.
Will there be a gain mismatch in this case?
Last Edit: 4 years 6 months ago by Skylinestar.
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DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 6 months ago #17004

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Hi thanks for the reply.

1) When will you know if you can provide 3.81mm pitch phoenix to XLR? Or can you recommend a vendor that I can buy from ?

2) My Surround processor XLR output connector is male. What is the phoenix connector gender on the 88a input side? Phoenix female? If yes, then the cable connector to the 88a input would be phoenix male on one end and XLR female at the other end?

3) Similarly , what is the phoenix gender on the 88a output side? Phoenix male? If yes, then the cable connector coming out from the 88a be phoenix female on one end and and XLR male at the other end (since amplifier inputs are female XLR connectors)?

devteam wrote:
quack724 wrote:
1) From previous reply, it was said that one "can only connect unbalanced OR balanced. Having both sources loaded to the inputs isn't recommended." My current set up has the left & right output from my Onkyo PR-SC885 SSP to Odyssey 2 ch amp via RCAs. Center and four surrounds are all XLRs from Onkyo SSP to a Sunfire 5 channel amp. Long story short, this was the stable solution to get rid of a humming issue I had. Is it ok to have a mix like this with DDRC-88A ? meaning, as long as I don't have RCA and XLR for a specific channel at the same time (only RCA -or- XLR for a channel) ?


2) I have two subwoofers for LFE currently output from a Xilica XP-2040 Parametric EQ { SSP single XLR out --> Parametric EQ 2 x XRL out --> XLR in of Sub 1 & XLR in of Sub 2 . Can I use Phoenix to XLR --> XLR "Y" cable to two subs? Otherwise I don't have enough channels as I have left, center, right, and four surround channels.

3) Can someone confirm Hosa part numbers for the standard Phoenix to XLR (both genders) are
Hosa PHX-206F
Hosa PHX-206M

Oh sure, you can indeed have a "mix" of RCA or Balanced. Note that they will have different input level capabilities though. (balanced vs unbalanced).
We were talking of the case where one is "loading" say INPUT 1 with both a balanced AND unbalanced signal. That's the case that isn't recommended.

As for the split for the outputs, sure, not a problem to load these.

HOSA ref. The pitch of that phoenix connector is wrong I'm afraid. You need to find the one that has the 3.81mm pitch. We'll see if we can source these cable here to add to shopping cart.
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DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 6 months ago #17009

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John Ashman wrote:
Making a mode for multi-zone correction would double or triple the sales for this product (maybe 10x). Obviously it would be best to have it test one stereo zone completely, then move on to the next. The issue I see for home theater apps is that it requires a preamp/amp, which means a high-end system, which means the preamp probebly has room correction. If it's a really high-end user, they won't be on board with added DAC/ADC, even if it's inaudible. If it's a lower end user, the price gets in the way because people really don't care that much and just want "TV sound". Whereas the digital version can be added lossessly to a high end system and can be automated by a universal remote to fit in seamlessly, even if the person has 4 or 5 HDMI products (even though only a few will be processed)

So, the niche is there, but, IMO, the analog version will do far better with the custom install market where EVERY house could use one because their sound is pretty mediocre, and it's a good price for 4 zones of correction.

John,

There are 4 presets available on the DDRC-88A. You can do individual room correction and sweet spot for the main zone, then another for Zone 2, Zone 3 and Zone 4. Load each into the preset and then switch according to what you would like to listen to. The assumption is that you would listen to one zone at a time or physically present in one space at a time.
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DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 5 months ago #17012

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Yes but along with the problems with measuring, it would make it extremely difficult, if not impossible to make happen. But I would think a simple software upgrade or alternative software could completely fix all of this.

It would also be nice to create an option with Dirac being global and enact digital crossovers so you have basically an 8x8 system with integrated Dirac for high-end 4-way speakers. In essence, it would be a DEQX for 1/3rd the price and with an extra crossover output.
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DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 5 months ago #17014

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It won't be a "simple software upgrade"...! At any rate, the software is from Dirac Research so it would be up to them. If they do something like that my guess would be it would be a separate product, and they'd be setting the licencing pricing.

Your second request can be accomplished by chaining a DDRC-22D with a 4x10HD - right? :)
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 5 months ago #17016

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John Ashman wrote:
Making a mode for multi-zone correction would double or triple the sales for this product (maybe 10x). Obviously it would be best to have it test one stereo zone completely, then move on to the next. The issue I see for home theater apps is that it requires a preamp/amp, which means a high-end system, which means the preamp probebly has room correction. If it's a really high-end user, they won't be on board with added DAC/ADC, even if it's inaudible. If it's a lower end user, the price gets in the way because people really don't care that much and just want "TV sound". Whereas the digital version can be added lossessly to a high end system and can be automated by a universal remote to fit in seamlessly, even if the person has 4 or 5 HDMI products (even though only a few will be processed)

So, the niche is there, but, IMO, the analog version will do far better with the custom install market where EVERY house could use one because their sound is pretty mediocre, and it's a good price for 4 zones of correction.

@ John,

We appreciate the feedback and will keep it in mind. In the mean time, please be mindfull that it's indeed outside our control (i.e. Dirac software) and not as "simple as a software upgrade". Maybe moving these discussions for a different thread (e.g. specific to the use of install market) knowing these are completely outside the scope/use of the product and what we advertized on both the datasheet/user manual. We do realize that you have that install market/multiroom at mind, but the product doesn't do it so it's not like we have a magic wand to fix it as we speak.. Thanks for your understanding.

DevTeam
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DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 5 months ago #17017

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Skylinestar wrote:
devteam wrote:
Sure, RCA in, Phoenix out is fine. Gain matching = gain structure. In most of times, especially if you're using consumer grade amplifiers, using balanced outputs (i.e. higher levels on this platform), you won't exactly benefit from Common Mode Rejection of balanced (i.e. very short distance). You'd have to pay attention that balanced signals have higher outputs and may create a mismatch for your gain structure. Each amp, each setup is different I guess.
My setup will be from consumer gear (AVR) to pro gear (amp). Haven't bought any amp yet, but the Crown CT8150 caught my attention as it is multichannel. Example: Denon AVR multichannel preouts to Dirac via RCA, then finally to Crown CT8150 pro gear amp via phoenix. For your info, most Crown amps have phoenix inputs.
Will there be a gain mismatch in this case?

These 2 amps will most likely indeed have 2 sets of gain, but also 2 sets of input sensitivity (i.e. ProAV amp vs consumer) so your choice of unbalanced for consumer ((unbalanced outputs have lower level on DDRC-88)) and balanced for the ProAV amp (balanced outputs have higher level on DDRC-88) is actually perfect.
You might need to do a bit of matching (i.e. simple ear). The actual levelling (+/-10dB) for gains will be done automatically by Dirac Live software so you don't need to worry much after that.

Sounds good?
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DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 5 months ago #17018

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john.reekie wrote:
It won't be a "simple software upgrade"...! At any rate, the software is from Dirac Research so it would be up to them. If they do something like that my guess would be it would be a separate product, and they'd be setting the licencing pricing.

What I mean is that it shouldn't require any hardware changes AFAIK.

Your second request can be accomplished by chaining a DDRC-22D with a 4x10HD - right? :)

Yes.....but it would be less expensive to do it in one box.

In any case, I am in the process of quoting for 6 large hotels so it was actually pretty important info which could have led to 10 or 20 units getting sold.

I'll just go away now then.
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DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 5 months ago #17019

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quack724 wrote:
Hi thanks for the reply.

1) When will you know if you can provide 3.81mm pitch phoenix to XLR? Or can you recommend a vendor that I can buy from ?

2) My Surround processor XLR output connector is male. What is the phoenix connector gender on the 88a input side? Phoenix female? If yes, then the cable connector to the 88a input would be phoenix male on one end and XLR female at the other end?

3) Similarly , what is the phoenix gender on the 88a output side? Phoenix male? If yes, then the cable connector coming out from the 88a be phoenix female on one end and and XLR male at the other end (since amplifier inputs are female XLR connectors)?

In answer to your questions:
1) We're investigating now. Do you need 8xin/8xout via XLR? Feel free to start a tech support ticket with us (minidsp.desk.com)and we can see if we can help by sourcing the XLR neutrik and build some custom cable. Might be a custom job for us though, so let us investigate.
2) It's Phoenix female on the DDRC-88 (i.e. the XlR to male phoenix connector adaptor will "plug" into the device.
3) Yes female on the DDRC-88 out.

The way people use these "phoenix" terminal blocks with XLR is as follow:
- buy a short XLR patch cable
- Cut it in the middle
- Use the XLR male to bare stripped wire for the DDRC OUT. You just "screw" the bare stripped wire to the pluggin phoenix connector we provide in the package (see user manual).
- Use the XLR female to bare stripped wire for the DDRC IN.
The connectors will look like this: www.google.com.hk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc...ust=1418871133708107

Makes sense?
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DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 5 months ago #17020

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devteam wrote:
quack724 wrote:
1) From previous reply, it was said that one "can only connect unbalanced OR balanced. Having both sources loaded to the inputs isn't recommended." My current set up has the left & right output from my Onkyo PR-SC885 SSP to Odyssey 2 ch amp via RCAs. Center and four surrounds are all XLRs from Onkyo SSP to a Sunfire 5 channel amp. Long story short, this was the stable solution to get rid of a humming issue I had. Is it ok to have a mix like this with DDRC-88A ? meaning, as long as I don't have RCA and XLR for a specific channel at the same time (only RCA -or- XLR for a channel) ?


2) I have two subwoofers for LFE currently output from a Xilica XP-2040 Parametric EQ { SSP single XLR out --> Parametric EQ 2 x XRL out --> XLR in of Sub 1 & XLR in of Sub 2 . Can I use Phoenix to XLR --> XLR "Y" cable to two subs? Otherwise I don't have enough channels as I have left, center, right, and four surround channels.

...

Oh sure, you can indeed have a "mix" of RCA or Balanced. Note that they will have different input level capabilities though. (balanced vs unbalanced).
We were talking of the case where one is "loading" say INPUT 1 with both a balanced AND unbalanced signal. That's the case that isn't recommended.

As for the split for the outputs, sure, not a problem to load these...

devteam,

Help me understand your reply on the mixed input scenario that been described above.

So for each input channel (say channel 1), it can have either balanced or unbalanced input? This is okay.
What is not okay is having both balanced and unbalanced inputs connected to the same channel 1.

What about the outputs? Are both the balanced and unbalanced outputs active at the same time? In this case output of channel 1.
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DDRC-88A: 8 channel analogue input/output Dirac 4 years 5 months ago #17354

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Would like to know if one is sending in unbalanced signals to the DDRC-88A, would it be possible to get balanced or unbalanced signals at the output? There would be some gain structure between the input and output to take into account, but would like to know if this is possible?

Thanks.
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