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TOPIC: internet connection needed to run the box ?

internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15701

  • ativ
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Hello everybody

It's my first post here :laugh:

i've tried Dirac software and think it's a good piece of soft
but i wonder if i need a internet conection to make the analyse and filter software ?
cause sometimes i would like to bring my mini dsp dirac box in a place
with some hifi system and room to correct without internet connection ...

i know internet is needed to activate the filter in the software version
as a "dongle" but i don't know how the mini dsp version works
can you help me to answer my questions i found nowhere some infos ?
thanks
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internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15704

  • john.reekie
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Hi there, you need an Internet connection when you generate the filters (see User Manual ;) )
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15706

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hi

thanks for the answer
so when i'm in a place with no internet connection i can't use the Dirac mini DSP series
because i can't generate the filter corresponding to the place where i am
it's a shame, all is good in this product but this problem is critical for me
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internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15707

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Perhaps look into using your phone for tethering/mobile hotspot?

I don't think there's much that miniDSP can do about it, it's the same Dirac tool as the software version you used.
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15716

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ok
but sometimes there will be no internet ... even with a cell phone
(yes i know it is quite rare theses days but it's also a good thing that such places exists)
moreover if it's exactly like the software version you need internet connection
for launching the measurement software tool and also the Live software

so even with previously pre recorded filter of the place i can't make the Dirac live
software run and then load it, because i don't have any network connection

what a shame, why dirac has chosen a such way to protect their software ?
a dongle or something like that would be more user friendly
why ?
:(
Last Edit: 2 years 2 months ago by ativ.
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internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15717

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ativ wrote:
what a shame, why dirac has chosen a such way to protect their software ?
a dongle or something like that would be more user friendly
why ?
:(

HI there, well FWIW I think the network connection is a much friendlier method than the physical dongle. Anyway I think miniDSP have been at CEDIA this last week, perhaps they will comment when they're back.

Sorry I couldn't help :(

Bye
I am not miniDSP support.

"You must ask the right questions." - Dr. Alfred Lanning's hologram.
-> Have you read the User Manual??
-> Have you drawn and posted a diagram?
-> Have you posted a screenshot?
-> Have you posted your config file?
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internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15719

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hi
just read that on a open DRC to DDRC upgrade topic
devteam answer:
"you'll need to ship the unit back to HK so we can enable and lock a license for it due to royalty requirement with Dirac."

does this possibly means that the licence could be enabled just with the hardware ?
maybe devteam could answer that when they'll be back on the boards
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internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15761

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ativ wrote:
ok
but sometimes there will be no internet ... even with a cell phone
(yes i know it is quite rare theses days but it's also a good thing that such places exists)
moreover if it's exactly like the software version you need internet connection
for launching the measurement software tool and also the Live software

so even with previously pre recorded filter of the place i can't make the Dirac live
software run and then load it, because i don't have any network connection

what a shame, why dirac has chosen a such way to protect their software ?
a dongle or something like that would be more user friendly
why ?
:(

Ativ,

In answer to your question, the internet connection is "only" required when you go the "optimize" step. Any other steps of the software (i.e. measurement/tweak of the target curve.. etc), can be done offline. I realize that it may not help but just wanted to clarify that the following statement wasn't entirely correct.
"so even with previously pre recorded filter of the place i can't make the Dirac live software run and then load it, because i don't have any network connection"

YES, you will indeed be able to run Dirac if you have pre-recorded filters. It's just the optimize step..
Sorry for this limitation completely outside our control I'm afraid.

DevTeam
MiniDSP, building a DIY DSP community one board at a time.
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internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15781

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Well there is a solution that could help a bit ... just a bit.

Possibly some DDRC22 could be sold and installed by an integrator.
In that case could it be possible for the end user to export later its measurements to the integrator's email trhough the software interface?
This might demand some coding to add this option.
The integrator can then define the target curves and generate filters.
Then send them to the end customer who would inject them in the Dirac calibration software.
This can currently be done using the save and load options.

So OK, it is the same problem, the work cannot be done in real time.

Ultimately, the idea would be to allow an integrator to work remotely on his customers systems.
Trinnov allow that with complet control of the hardware.
Last Edit: 2 years 2 months ago by jackox.
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internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15796

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hello

thanks for theses infos dev team and jackox,
but in the software version if no internet found there is no way to open the live softare and also measurement software
when opening the softwares it says: "server connection timed out; please check your internet connection and try again"
that's why i thought the minidsp dirac series would act the same way... but as dev team said it is only for the optimisation
that internet connection is needed ... it makes me wonder who is calculatiing the filters ? is it my computer ou the dirac sever
Dev team, do you know why internet connection to dirac's servers is needed for ?

thanks jackox for the infos also, i didn't knew what a integrator was, but i've made some research and start to see what you mean
Trinnov could be also be a good solution, it look great but expensive... i'll have a closer look at it

cheers
Last Edit: 2 years 2 months ago by ativ.
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internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15798

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Hello Ativ,

Trinnov is an excellent system but has you said, it is very expensive.
Trinnov major advantage comes from remapping processing. But if your speakers are at correct positions then remapping does not make much sens anymore.
The DDRC22 deliver an amazing correction accurency and the price is really fair.
It is the cheaper, yet most effecient, active correction I ever had.

The software is just great. Easy to use with infinite possibilities.
I wish France distribution was more dynamic, that said, direct buy from MiniDSP is a good deal.
Above all, MiniDSP uses FedEx which is among the best for shipping.
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internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15799

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salut jackox

placement of the system is not critical for me but could be useful
the DDRC is really a good product for it's price it's a shame
that there's this "limitation" with this internet connection needed

Trinnov is expensive but it's designed and made in france,
not very far from where i live and no internet connection seems to be needed ...
maybe i could see if i can have a demo and talk about the prices

merci pour les infos

;)
Last Edit: 2 years 2 months ago by ativ.
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internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15806

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Not arguing about Trinnov, but here are the facts. i know quite well has I helped some people configuring their units.

First the price ... we speak about 4-5K for a stereo unit with 4 channel of active filter possibilities. Not too bad really.
Then you need to buy the measuring kit that will include the very specific mic, an extra 600€ if I am not mistaken.
The hardware plateform is basically a PC computer running under Linux with proprietary I/O cards. This is a good design based on pro audio philisophy. All is upgradable at a certain point. But some upgrades, even software are not free. You may need to pay some extra software tools too.
There is no remote, so in order to control the Trinnov you will either need an extra PC screen with mouse and keyboard, or a touchscreen, or best a tablet interfaced trhough VNC. Again, few hundreds of euro to add in.
Speaking of the hardware, it is quite clear that you pay mostly for the software and the services liked to it. About the service, which are more than usefull, you will NEED an internet network. Here is what often happens with new users. On a Trinnov you can create as many profiles as you like. You can create filters, go through each measures and so on. You can do mostly anything, that means you can screw up the system unit by overflowing it with data. If that happens the end user has no way to recover the Trinnov. It can also happen that you will reboot several time the unit in order to try to get rid of a problem (which ever it is) and overflow the boot log file resulting in a freeze state of the unit. I think you can face other misuse issues. At that point nothing is lost, you contact Trinnov and they remotely take control of the unit and solve everything. That means internet is needed at all times.
You may also be confused about what to do with the target curves and weighting each measures. They can work that out for you too, even though I think you would need an integrator who knows the system and who can try and listen with you in order to figure out what to do to get the Trinnov work better.
The strengh of the Trinnov is the ability to get through each measure and weight them. Trinnov is like Audyssey and Dirac, it is possible to enlarge and smooth the sweet spot. In order to do so it is important to be able to weight in a way each mapped measuring position. With Dirac I think you simply need to take more measures in a dedicated area to give a spot more importance, this goes for Audyssey. With Trinnov it is a bit more complex. You can read each measure and manualy give it a weighting value, so you don't need to take several measures at a dedicated spot. Still this is not a perfect method because of singular accidents. These are isolated room accoustic defects of a big value. It means that if the filter take these in concideration the correction accurency will be altered. Audyssey solve that with cluster weighting method, a sort of auto accident statistic ratio that will weight accidents as they are repeated or not. I do not know Dirac's approach. With Trinnov you need to do that manually, that means checking each measurements and cancel those with a significative singular accident.
In order to illustrate what I am talking about:
I did an Audyssey Pro calibration in a supposed to be treated HT room. Audyssey Pro can alert at each measure if there is a defect. the system is not smart enough to tell you what it is, but still it will stop the calibration procces in order to prevent a problem while creating the filter. It will tell you that the environnement is too noisy. So here is what happened that day. We started the calibration procces and suddenly the Audyssey shows the fault message and won't validate one position with one specific channel. Just this one and no others. We took my spectrum analyser to check what it is about and surprise, there was a pike of more than 12dB at around 120Hz!
At all means in this situation you MUST cancel the measure, otherwise it would compromise the correction accurency. With Trinnov you must do this analysis stage all by yourself.
Trinnov is certainly the most advanced room correction system, but it needs some knowledge and time in order to be used correctly. Even Trinnov team sometimes fail to impress during a demo because they did not had time to optimize the system and because they don't know enough the speakers in it.
DDRC22s are more intuitive, cheaper and work great. Has I said in my review, higher end systems would demand a higher end unit, Trinnov for example.
No matter what is your choice, do remember than, Dirac, Audyssey Pro, Trinnov, they all need an internet connection, not for the same reasons, but still.
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internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15833

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ativ wrote:
hello

thanks for theses infos dev team and jackox,
but in the software version if no internet found there is no way to open the live softare and also measurement software
when opening the softwares it says: "server connection timed out; please check your internet connection and try again"
that's why i thought the minidsp dirac series would act the same way... but as dev team said it is only for the optimisation
that internet connection is needed ... it makes me wonder who is calculating the filters ? is it my computer ou the dirac sever
Dev team, do you know why internet connection to dirac's servers is needed for ?

thanks jackox for the infos also, i didn't knew what a integrator was, but i've made some research and start to see what you mean
Trinnov could be also be a good solution, it look great but expensive... i'll have a closer look at it

cheers
@ Ativ,

In answer to your question as to who is calculating filters, it's a combination of your PC and the remote server... On the DDRC, you can indeed open the software and run all the measurements fine. You just need to have a "live internet" connection when you click on the button "Optimize" & "Load" to a special slot. Once loaded to that slot, no more Internet connection required. You can unplug it and let it run on its own.
I'm not sure what the software only DIRAC version (i.e. the one running on a PC does) unfortunately, but I guess based on what you're saying it seems different?
MiniDSP, building a DIY DSP community one board at a time.
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internet connection needed to run the box ? 2 years 2 months ago #15834

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@ Jackox,

Thanks for the lengthy explanation on how things work based on your experience. Very valuable and as any technology, I'm sure that Trinnov does have its merits.. :-)
You're right on the point stating that different systems, different budgets, different expectations. Hard to please everybody but in the mean time, there is always a solution. It just depends what you're after. :-)

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